2025-01-07 16:01:15 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !startmeeting riscv-sig
2025-01-07 16:01:17 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-01-07 16:01:15 UTC
2025-01-07 16:01:17 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'riscv-sig'
2025-01-07 16:01:20 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !meetingname riscv-sig
2025-01-07 16:01:20 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !topic init process / agenda gathering
2025-01-07 16:01:21 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now riscv-sig
2025-01-07 16:01:26 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi
2025-01-07 16:01:27 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
2025-01-07 16:01:33 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> that's convenient :) 
2025-01-07 16:01:55 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> morning everyone. welcome to 2025. ;) What shall we have on the agenda today?
2025-01-07 16:02:02 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> g'morning Nirik - hope you had a good holiday
2025-01-07 16:02:23 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, got a lot of home infra hacking done. ;) Yours?
2025-01-07 16:02:45 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> about the same! organized (parts) of my mess of a workspace, so we'll see how long that lasts
2025-01-07 16:03:14 <@davidlt:matrix.org> !hi
2025-01-07 16:03:17 <@zodbot:fedora.im> David Abdurachmanov (davidlt)
2025-01-07 16:03:23 <@abologna:matrix.org> !hi
2025-01-07 16:03:25 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (abologna)
2025-01-07 16:03:38 <@abologna:matrix.org> I spent most of my break hacking on the P550 :)
2025-01-07 16:03:52 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> nice.
2025-01-07 16:04:06 <@abologna:matrix.org> yes and no ;)
2025-01-07 16:04:19 <@davidlt:matrix.org> It seems all P550 boards will arrive later than anticipated.
2025-01-07 16:04:59 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> agenda wise: I have nothing to bring today except that I am picking back up on the lusol/blas/etc chain we spoke about before the holidays
2025-01-07 16:05:27 <@rwmj:matrix.org> I have nothing this week, except to note I'm away til February
2025-01-07 16:05:45 <@abologna:matrix.org> one topic I would like to discuss is getting "official" F41 images out
2025-01-07 16:06:00 <@abologna:matrix.org> I think we're really close and we could get them out in 1/2 weeks top
2025-01-07 16:06:07 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I have a small status note about secondary koji setup: I managed to setup the database server before the break, but thats it. However, it's now at the top of my list, so I hope to work on the hub this week. It's going to be a bit anoying because we dropped all the secondary stuff in ansible, but I should be able to restore it with a bit more work.
2025-01-07 16:06:34 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I would like to include new OpenSBI + U-Boot release from F42 in our F41 images.
2025-01-07 16:06:45 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> I'm choosing to read this as "one half week"
2025-01-07 16:07:07 <@abologna:matrix.org> then you're choosing to be wrong ;)
2025-01-07 16:07:28 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Our Koji sometimes has performance issues, but so far I didn't manage to pin point the problem.
2025-01-07 16:07:42 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> How many images are we talking about? and what kernel(s) on them? ;) (I know we talked about this in december, but I can't recall the details)
2025-01-07 16:08:27 <@abologna:matrix.org> generic cloud image + generic host image (works on VF2) + P550 image for sure
2025-01-07 16:08:41 <@davidlt:matrix.org> <10 if we include container images. We build 3 container images, cloud images, and then maybe board specific images. Maybe firmware blobs too.
2025-01-07 16:08:56 <@abologna:matrix.org> not sure how close we are to a BPI image?
2025-01-07 16:10:06 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Unknown. I think, Jason Montleon  is toying with v6.13 kernel tree + EFI. So it might be possible to get it working as a normal Fedora too.
2025-01-07 16:10:19 <@rwmj:matrix.org> FWIW here is FU Wei's unofficial Fedora image: https://www.fedoravforce.org/ 
2025-01-07 16:10:28 <@rwmj:matrix.org> *images
2025-01-07 16:10:36 <@jmontleon:fedora.im> We probably need to figure out how to build u-boot for spacemit
2025-01-07 16:10:49 <@rwmj:matrix.org> those have proprietary bits however which is problematic
2025-01-07 16:11:11 <@abologna:matrix.org> yeah, we don't want that
2025-01-07 16:11:12 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Our images only include the needed bits, not the whole thing (e.g. GPU).
2025-01-07 16:11:33 <@abologna:matrix.org> we're aiming for headless build host for now
2025-01-07 16:11:45 <@rwmj:matrix.org> I agree
2025-01-07 16:12:00 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Spacemit and P550 images would only be there for build machines, not general consumption (but folks will still use them).
2025-01-07 16:12:50 <@abologna:matrix.org> having a working image with vendor kernel (but built in Fedora and configured to be Fedora-like) is a stepping stone to a proper mainline image IMO
2025-01-07 16:13:00 <@abologna:matrix.org> of course it's the vendor that should take care of the upstreaming
2025-01-07 16:13:24 <@abologna:matrix.org> there will be big warning signs for these images. people will still use them :)
2025-01-07 16:13:48 <@abologna:matrix.org> better than have them run Ubuntu or whatever
2025-01-07 16:13:54 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> if only vendors did that. ;)
2025-01-07 16:13:55 <@davidlt:matrix.org> It's more like a stop gap solution. Allows us to use the hardware.
2025-01-07 16:14:02 <@abologna:matrix.org> yeah, exactly
2025-01-07 16:14:05 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> we could just not put them on mirrors, download from the koji instance directly.. like, people can still get them if they want
2025-01-07 16:14:11 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> but we're not advertising
2025-01-07 16:14:24 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> they do! ... by getting us to do it. :P
2025-01-07 16:14:43 <@abologna:matrix.org> I don't think that's useful. you're just pushing people towards Ubuntu. available with big warning signs is the way to go IMO
2025-01-07 16:15:00 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Depends on the company, but I would hope ESWIN will work on upstream at some point.
2025-01-07 16:15:05 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, I think as long as we set expectations having them is good.
2025-01-07 16:15:13 <@abologna:matrix.org> there's nothing inherently wrong with using them, as long as you're aware that you're not running "real" Fedora
2025-01-07 16:15:22 <@abologna:matrix.org> which in a sense you're not doing anyway on riscv64 ;)
2025-01-07 16:15:44 <@abologna:matrix.org> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/RISC-V/HiFive-Premier-P550
2025-01-07 16:15:54 <@abologna:matrix.org> see the warning on top here. we could make it meaner
2025-01-07 16:16:00 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> i don't mind either way, really. was mostly just offering an alternative
2025-01-07 16:16:59 <@davidlt:matrix.org> In general it seems we will have Fedora 41+ images for P550 (at least SiFive) before majority gets the boards.
2025-01-07 16:17:23 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> not a bad thing! 
2025-01-07 16:17:29 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> in fact, one might say it's a good thing 
2025-01-07 16:17:36 <@abologna:matrix.org> that's good! people can flash Fedora instead of Ubuntu right after unboxing ;)
2025-01-07 16:18:04 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Isn't that a bit boring? 😉
2025-01-07 16:18:17 <@abologna:matrix.org> some people *love* boring ;)
2025-01-07 16:18:30 <@davidlt:matrix.org> It was a bit unexpected that we could manage to handle all these problems remotely 😄
2025-01-07 16:18:52 <@abologna:matrix.org> well Jason Montleon is amazing
2025-01-07 16:19:06 <@abologna:matrix.org> so having him around basically counts as superpowers
2025-01-07 16:19:34 <@jmontleon:fedora.im> heh, just persistent building kernels
2025-01-07 16:20:00 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> So is there a list of images/supported? should we have a wiki page on them? or?
2025-01-07 16:20:29 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> is there gonna be an unmatched image? ;) My builder is... really out of date.
2025-01-07 16:20:36 <@abologna:matrix.org> I was planning to update the wiki after building the next "even more unofficial" image for P550
2025-01-07 16:20:44 <@abologna:matrix.org> which should happen tomorrow
2025-01-07 16:21:11 <@abologna:matrix.org> I can only really document stuff that I have access to (QEMU, VF2, P550) 
2025-01-07 16:21:16 <@abologna:matrix.org> someone else will have to fill out the rest
2025-01-07 16:21:28 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2025-01-07 16:21:31 <@davidlt:matrix.org> nirik: don't touch it 😄 In general the existing disk image should work fine, but might need to spin new variants per board/depending how you boot them.
2025-01-07 16:21:35 <@abologna:matrix.org> but I can set up the structure and work on the "common" bits
2025-01-07 16:21:37 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2025-01-07 16:22:08 <@davidlt:matrix.org> We should not touch the boards until we ready to switch to a new Koji.
2025-01-07 16:22:17 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> davidlt: I haven't been... just don't like running something so out of date, but thats ok... I will just let it run then.
2025-01-07 16:23:01 <@abologna:matrix.org> davidlt: you were talking about u-boot and OpenSBI from F42 earlier. do the packages you want already exist in F42?
2025-01-07 16:23:09 <@abologna:matrix.org> or do we need upstream releases to happen?
2025-01-07 16:23:38 <@davidlt:matrix.org> New U-Boot (v2025.01) landed in F42 recently. I need to bump OpenSBI too (happened before Christmas).
2025-01-07 16:24:10 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Shouldn't too much of work, but I have been busy with F42 and large SOVERION bumps (catching up).
2025-01-07 16:24:15 <@abologna:matrix.org> okay so theoretically we should just need to rebuild existing sources in a different environment
2025-01-07 16:24:25 <@abologna:matrix.org> good
2025-01-07 16:24:58 <@abologna:matrix.org> anything else you'd want to update before considering F41 "done"?
2025-01-07 16:25:01 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Yeah, rebuild OpenSBI, rebase U-Boot and should be OK. Let's say ~1 day of work (less if nothing explodes).
2025-01-07 16:25:02 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> oh, another thing to note (but not sure how much it matters...): f42 mass rebuild starts next wed...
2025-01-07 16:25:21 <@abologna:matrix.org> personally I'd like to see that audit package with backported upstream patches
2025-01-07 16:25:27 <@abologna:matrix.org> that's the only item on my list
2025-01-07 16:25:45 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I am not ready for it, but it was never a problem for us. We typically launch ours later on.
2025-01-07 16:25:46 <@abologna:matrix.org> everything else is probably better handled in F42 at this point anyway
2025-01-07 16:26:14 <@davidlt:matrix.org> So we let all the problems to happen on upstream Koji, and then after it looks OK that's then I start it.
2025-01-07 16:27:05 <@abologna:matrix.org> still speaking for myself, I'll admit that I don't particularly care about the u-boot and OpenSBI updates either. if what we have right now is good enough to boot our targets, which it is, then we could easily leave things alone
2025-01-07 16:27:16 <@abologna:matrix.org> but if you have your own desire to update them, by all means :)
2025-01-07 16:27:27 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I prefer to solve a number of SOVERSION bumps, etc. before mass rebuild happens to avoid a having a large number of builds failing.
2025-01-07 16:27:43 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> also, tracker for gcc15 failures from mass prebuild: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2333037
2025-01-07 16:28:14 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I've got to step away for a few... will read up when I get back. ;)
2025-01-07 16:28:27 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I constantly check gcc dist-git and https://gcc.gnu.org/git/?p=gcc.git;a=log;h=refs/vendors/redhat/heads/gcc-15-branch
2025-01-07 16:31:05 <@abologna:matrix.org> davidlt: with all that was discussed, do you think the weekend of 18-19 would be a realistic goal to set for final F41 images?
2025-01-07 16:33:22 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Realistically we could go as-is right now. The only change we need to do is touch Kiwi things a bit after fedora-repo related changes.
2025-01-07 16:33:52 <@abologna:matrix.org> I have those changes ready. I will clean them up and send them your way by the end of the week
2025-01-07 16:34:02 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Unless we want to mask hvc0 or/and remove earlycon.
2025-01-07 16:35:13 <@abologna:matrix.org> so I'm going to take that as a yes? :)
2025-01-07 16:35:36 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Yes, to your question about 18-19 😄
2025-01-07 16:35:44 <@abologna:matrix.org> great!
2025-01-07 16:37:03 <@abologna:matrix.org> how far along is F42? could one realistically boot a minimal F41 VM and upgrade it to F42?
2025-01-07 16:37:59 <@abologna:matrix.org> I'm still thinking about the audit thing
2025-01-07 16:38:00 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Content wise not by a lot. I really focusing on things that bump SOVERION and cause incompatibilities (i.e. breaks dependencies). 
2025-01-07 16:38:13 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Thus not doing a large scale 24/7 builds right now.
2025-01-07 16:38:34 <@abologna:matrix.org> if we can validate those in F42, then I'm not too concerned about leaving F41 alone
2025-01-07 16:39:49 <@davidlt:matrix.org> You most likely want to boot with that, and I most likely will break F42 at this stage.
2025-01-07 16:40:29 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I am trying to be precise, but I usually I am mixing 3-4 large Bodhi updates at a time. Just a large puzzle.
2025-01-07 16:41:07 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> The rate of change in rawhide was lower than normal over the holidays, but I expect it will heat up again now...
2025-01-07 16:42:15 <@abologna:matrix.org> anyway we just need to validate the changes, it's not important that they end up in the images
2025-01-07 16:42:23 <@abologna:matrix.org> so it's not a blocker in that regard
2025-01-07 16:42:35 <@abologna:matrix.org> great
2025-01-07 16:42:43 <@abologna:matrix.org> do we have other topics to discuss?
2025-01-07 16:43:05 <@abologna:matrix.org> I think we're done for this one
2025-01-07 16:43:19 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, I dont know that I have much else off hand...
2025-01-07 16:44:03 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> random question: whats the status on support for those frame.work riscv boards? or are those still not actually existing?
2025-01-07 16:44:43 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Those are supported by Fu Wei in China. We don't have a board AFAIK.
2025-01-07 16:44:59 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> ok, fair enough
2025-01-07 16:45:33 <@davidlt:matrix.org> This one is a bit more tricky as it would require a full iGPU support. It seems there will be upstream support for it, but will take quite some time.
2025-01-07 16:45:59 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, takes time to upstream things.
2025-01-07 16:46:15 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> ok then, should we just end early today? Next meeting in 2 weeks?
2025-01-07 16:46:17 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Imagination is expanding support, but the company is on sale again too 😄
2025-01-07 16:48:18 <@abologna:matrix.org> nirik: ACK on both counts from my side
2025-01-07 16:49:06 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> alrighty then. Thanks for coming everyone and lets get back to #riscv:fedoraproject.org
2025-01-07 16:49:09 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !endmeeting