15:03:04 #startmeeting 15:03:04 Meeting started Wed Nov 4 15:03:04 2009 UTC. The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:03:04 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:03:43 Intro on Sunday: if you can kick off a generic little "welcome everyone" spiel to call folks together, I can take the rest from there, and make sure the installfest happens, everyone gets set up, gets to meet each other, etc. 15:04:35 #info Sunday Welcome: Harish to kick off, Mel to do the rest 15:05:28 I can also take all of Monday's curriculum to give us some breathing room to figure out how to work out the rest of the week 15:07:36 am back 15:07:43 call done 15:08:03 ok with sunday 15:08:20 sounds ok with monday being handled by you. 15:08:26 #info Mel taking Monday 15:08:28 let me look at the monday stuff again ... 15:08:48 it's basically "here's open source, let's use the wiki and IRC" 15:09:07 ok 15:09:12 got it. go for it. 15:09:19 i'll chip in as needed 15:09:34 yeah, I suspect there'll be a lot of good times to interrupt me with "here's the history of open source in APAC, here's how we handle i18n with Asian languages," etc. stuff I don't know 15:09:43 Tuesday: getting and building source 15:09:46 we will have some language challenges so we might have to manage them 15:09:48 and RPM packaging basics 15:10:07 Yeah, I'll try to set up Asian languages on my F11 machine before I leave so I have some idea of the pain 15:10:18 I haven't tried to type in Chinese for nearly a year now 15:10:39 harish: how are you with packaging? 15:10:42 and i am unclued about anything other than english. 15:11:01 i have done packaging but i will need to review it first. 15:11:27 It's good to have them watch us figure out some unfamiliar things, I think; it drives home the point that everyone's always learning, and shows them how folks who are used to the open source world go about doing it. 15:11:34 Ok. Yeah, I've only been packaging for a few months 15:11:42 * harish dusting off old memories from 2003 about rpm 15:11:44 So I can do it, I'm just not that great at it 15:11:45 Wow! 15:12:21 I'll try to cram in as much practice as possible for myself too, but it's probably good to have some helpers on backup on IRC 15:12:41 yes, can you identify someone? 15:12:50 harish: I think if you drive one topic on Tuesday and I drive the other, we'll be ok, and we can back each other up - do you want to do build environments, or packaging? 15:12:58 I'm equally comfortable with either, so it's your call 15:13:31 harish: we know a lot of excellent packagers, but I don't know anyone in the right time zone 15:13:34 again, it is vintage 2003, so I am happy to try out either. 15:13:35 sdziallas:  ideas? 15:14:05 harish: ok, I'll take point on source and you take point on packaging and we'll figure it out 15:14:15 ok 15:14:15 #info Tuesday: getting and building source - Mel 15:14:18 mchua: hey :) 15:14:21 * sdziallas reads backlog 15:14:22 #info Tuesday: RPM packaging basics - Harish 15:14:45 sdziallas: harish and i are both fuzzy on packaging (he's rusty, I'm new) and we're going to need backup 15:14:56 sdziallas: can you think of a way for us to rally the troops on IRC? 15:14:58 * harish recalls running a training on rpm basics in early 2004. need to find the documents. 15:15:11 mchua: I can try to help, but you know of my time zone... 15:15:17 sdziallas: Yeah, I know... 15:15:37 for the record, Singapore is GMT+8. 15:15:48 mchua: you mean more packaging folks? mhm, I guess Fedora Planet post with "super-awesome project needs help" might do the trick... 15:15:55 harish: I'm GMT+1... :/ 15:15:57 harish: ok, wednesday has bugzilla, navigating large codebases and making patches, and getting through the patch review process 15:15:59 So from US East Coast it is +13 hrs ahead and US west coast +16. 15:16:17 sdziallas: i see 15:16:32 harish: I guess I could join in the late afternoon, but that's probably too late. 15:16:44 unless we move it to late afternoon. 15:16:45 harish: I used to do QA, so I'm feeling good about bugzilla; I haven't gone through the patch process myself though. 15:16:55 mchua: mhm, I'm trying to think of some folks with edu background and packaging experiences... 15:17:28 i can ask Derek on that. i have patched stuff from diffs (for the kernel back when I did recompile of kernels for fun), but that is vintage 1999. 15:17:34 mchua: rdieter, probably. or nirik (not that much into education, but he seems to be reasonable and could probably use that for another Fedora Classroom run)? 15:17:44 harish: vintage is better than "haven't done this before" 15:17:46 sdziallas: Ooh! 15:17:53 sdziallas: Yeah, I'd love to have Fedora Classroom get in on the action 15:18:03 sdziallas: can we? 15:18:32 a Fedora Classroom thing? well, let's see if I can find nirik... ;) 15:18:40 harish: k, so I'll take bugzilla and some combo of you and Derek can do 'developing in community' and 'patching'? 15:18:53 yes 15:19:04 #info Wednesday, bugzilla - Mel 15:19:16 #info Wednesday, developing in community + patching - Derek, Harish 15:19:24 mchua: want me to ask whether he's joining us here in the channel now for a quick discussion? 15:19:27 sdziallas: sure 15:19:33 cool! 15:19:37 * sdziallas goes pinging 15:19:46 sdziallas: really quick, I promised Harish we'd be done in 12min ;) 15:19:59 mchua: oups! :) well, let's see if he replies... 15:20:06 harish: Thursday has debugging and testing, open source collaborative development, student project case studies 15:20:19 I have tons of case studies, so can do that one 15:20:24 #info Thursday case studies - Mel 15:20:34 sure, i can chip in on that. 15:20:36 yay! 15:21:06 btw, fwiw, check cpe802.pbwiki.com - it is a course I teach at the NTU once a year. been doing that for 4 years now. 15:21:23 the 'collaborative development' part - any ideas for what part of the codebase we can dive everyone into that isn't going to be a problem with language barriers? 15:21:40 harish: whoa. AWESOME. 15:21:59 we can put up on monday a list of projects that need help and see if there are votes for them. 15:22:25 * mchua nods 15:22:46 I think that if we view this as a rough schedule and take time at the end of each day with the students to build the schedule for the next day, we'll be all right 15:22:53 we need a running list of to-dos, gotchas, etc all on the wiki. 15:23:04 I think we're going to have to do that since it sounds like we've got way less time than we originally planned (Thursday instead of Friday) 15:23:33 * mchua is excited; this'll be fun 15:23:45 the more improvisational I have to be while teaching, the better I usually teach 15:23:57 harish: +1, we'll make sure of that 15:24:21 harish: that means we need to have *everybody* be on the mailing list and on this channel through the whole week 15:24:41 yes, that *is* the way forward anyway. 15:24:43 harish: so every chance you get to bug Alan about getting people on the mailing list, do ;) 15:24:53 Yay! Immersion! 15:25:11 alas, i will not be seeing him till sunday. am in kl right now speaking tomorrow at mygosscon. 15:25:28 harish: thursday - debugging and testing, open source collaborative development (large codebase dive) - pick one, I'll run point on the other 15:25:44 harish: no worries, he's going to get emails from me ;) (the posse-apac list will be cc'd) 15:25:45 i'd like to set the tone of the session as being a serious but fun thing. 15:25:54 I think that's exactly right. 15:26:14 debugging and testing perhaps. 15:26:31 Ok 15:26:36 mchua: he doesn't seem to reply, will hopefully do so later 15:26:39 need to have a daily review of what we did the day before item on the schedule 15:26:39 #info Thursday, debugging and testing - Harish 15:26:56 #info Thursday, collaborative dev - Mel 15:27:14 testing include regression as well. 15:27:31 harish: Yep, I'll look at the wiki page and see how we can break the structure open to make it easier to madly edit next week 15:27:45 harish: aye, and it might be worth pinging the fedora qa folks and letting them know we're going to be doing this 15:27:51 I think test days are usually scheduled on thursdays too 15:28:22 ...oooh! 15:28:23 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_12_test_days 15:28:29 i have to step out on 12th November 2009, 3-5pm for a meeting 15:28:53 harish: np, I'll take care of it then, we'll be swimming in a codebase anyway 15:29:24 we'll make sure to do the student project case studies before you have to run 15:29:34 #info Harish out Thursday 3-5pm, make sure we do student project case studies before he has to leave 15:30:01 harish: and if you could do the wrangling of guests to Thursday's dinner when you get back from that (dinner starts 6:30) that'd be great 15:30:26 oh yeah. did not do that yet. how many seats do we have for guests? 15:30:30 10 15:30:38 and what's left? 15:30:43 9, if Derek comes 15:30:48 ok 15:31:08 alan is handling the dinner logistics? 15:31:25 harish: yeah, Alan has the logistics down... basically, if you can play host Thursday night, and I'll run backup as needed 15:31:42 sure, i'd be happy to do that. 15:31:46 I make a pretty lousy party host by Asian cultural standards, from prior experience :) 15:31:50 sweet. 15:32:06 that just leaves Friday's "teaching open source" bit 15:32:11 btw, did alan say anything about rh tee-shirts? 15:32:21 which I think you probably should do since you've taught open source in APAC before 15:32:25 and the wrap-up, which we can both handle 15:32:32 harish: not that I know of 15:32:34 ok 15:32:38 ok 15:32:51 harish: and with that, I believe we're done. 15:33:02 So long as we have Sunday night settled (which we do) and Monday taken care of (which we do) 15:33:03 yes, now to ping derek 15:33:06 and a rough gameplan for the rest 15:33:13 and the ability to improvise, we'll be okay 15:33:29 we will wing it anyway as any good open source project 15:33:34 Aye. 15:33:47 harish: I think I owe you something like 50 drinks by now. :) 15:33:57 *totally* looking forward to meeting you on Sunday. 15:34:00 hick! 15:34:08 harish: anything else? that's all I had, I'll attack the wiki 15:34:16 when are you arriving into SG? 15:34:25 nothing else i think. 15:34:42 harish: Sunday really really early morning, just past midnight 15:34:56 can we ensure that gdk is on irc at some point(s) next week? 15:34:58 harish: I should be up and ready to go by lunchtime 15:35:06 ok 15:35:09 harish: yes 15:35:32 harish: the CommArch sprint on Tuesday is half-POSSE, so we have the entire team for a couple hours our Tuesday evening if we need anything 15:35:42 i have a family (and extended one in that) lunch on sunday and should be available by 4ish. 15:35:44 and I'm going to be calling heavily for IRC backup 15:36:01 ok 15:36:09 i have not been on the commarch call for a while now. 15:36:19 feeling like an outsider :-). 15:36:56 harish: I'll check with Max and make sure we sync you up before Monday starts 15:37:09 even if that's me and you and a 10 minute braindump before dinner Sunday 15:37:25 sure 15:37:41 harish: anyway, I didn't want to keep you from other meetings, but I'll be around all day, and late tonight, and... basically in this channel up until I hop the plane 15:37:42 i'll bring an empty bucket :-). 15:37:45 :) 15:38:08 sweet. ttyl 15:38:09 #info Friday, teaching open source - Harish 15:38:17 #info Friday, wrap-up - Harish and Mel 15:38:23 #info Thursday, dinner party night - Harish 15:38:31 #endmeeting