00:59:37 <mchua> #startmeeting
00:59:37 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Nov 11 00:59:37 2009 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
00:59:37 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
00:59:45 <mchua> Today: skills day.
01:03:03 <transbot0> Kaio has disconnected
01:03:31 <mchua> #topic The Open Source Value Proposition
01:03:41 <mchua> Harish is going through the open source value proposition.
01:03:50 <mchua> (This gives me some time to frantically prepare materials for the rest of the day.)
01:04:02 <mchua> (We have, once again, changed the schedule on the fly because of feedback we've gotten.)
01:16:12 <kinchew> Today is the 3rd day of the POSSE Workshop.
01:16:52 <kinchew> Harish has just finished a short session on the Value Proposition for Open Source.
01:17:03 <mchua> :) thanks!
01:17:19 * mchua is furiously preparing materials for the rest of the day, so other people taking notes here is appreciated
01:17:36 * mchua wonders how well the things Harish is explaining translate into how people can talk with their schools about open source
01:18:32 <kinchew> We will be doing the following today:  GIT, BUGZILLA, PATCHES, BUILD, BLOGS and FUN Sugar.  Hope to have fun today!
01:20:08 <kinchew> I  guess we need to develop some documentation on this Open Source Value Proposition.  Alternatively, if we can do a video clip, then it will be convincing!
01:20:56 <kinchew> We now have a short discussion on Cloud Computing versus Open Source.
01:21:49 <kinchew> How to build a Cloud Computing infrastructure based on Open Source Software?
01:22:50 <YeLong> the same question
01:24:12 <kinchew> The discussion is now on the security of information in the Cloud Computing infrastructure.
01:25:24 <kinchew> Harish is now asking all of us on how we can adapt his Open Source Value Proposition for use by students.
01:28:51 <kinchew> We are now talking about learning management systems, e.g. Blackboard.
01:30:35 <YeLong> e-learning?
01:31:38 <kinchew> Harish has just outlined his value proposition into the following categories:  What, Where, Why, How.
01:33:08 <kinchew> Harish felt that if we can articulate his value proposition he feels that our students might be more convinced about Open Source Software.
01:33:57 <kinchew> One of the challenges that Harish knew is that many companies want to know how Open Source Software can be used for enterprise applications.
01:36:20 <kinchew> Apache is the most popular web server on the Internet.  The Internet is being attacked very frequently but Apache is still very popular.  Why?
01:37:45 <kinchew> Why is the IIS attacked more often than the Apache?
01:38:58 <kinchew> Is the security of Apache that good that people do not want to attack Apache?  This is a question asked aby Mr. YeLong
01:39:19 <YeLong> But the biggest question is the students have been adopted to using Microsoft software. Moreover, most of Open Source software are not as easy to use as Microsoft software.
01:40:03 <kinchew> Harish is now talking about SELinux.
01:40:39 <kinchew> Harish:  SUN has the Solaris and the Trusted Solaris.
01:42:47 <mchua> kinchew: I've got a camera if people want video clips :)
01:43:04 <kinchew> Harish:  All our machines can now be locked by SELinux.  SELinux is started by the NSA.
01:44:36 <kinchew> Mel - using the camera to take some video clips is a good idea.  Perhaps we can sound out the other participants.  We can do a short video clip, maybe as a deliverable of our workshop.  How about doing this tomorrow?
01:46:25 <kinchew> Hi Everybody, please go over to http://blog.melchua.com to see Mel's blog.
01:48:03 <kinchew> Harish:  Anybody wants to offer a definition of Cloud Computing?
01:50:12 <kinchew> Question:  Do you use IT to make yourself more efficient or do you use it as your core competency?
01:50:43 <transbot0> tiansworld has disconnected
01:55:28 <martz927> hi all
01:55:59 <martz927> i think cannot ssh to fedorapeople.org, can someone assist me to tell me which grp should i join?
01:57:53 <kinchew> Hi Martyn, I was told to do the ssh on the lab PC not on your personal laptop.
02:01:09 <transbot0> harish-xchat has disconnected
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02:10:19 <mchua> martz927: When we go through the blogs exercise today, I'll walk everyone through joining the marketing group. That should take care of it.
02:10:48 <mchua> Unless ricky or someone else who can give people git commit access to the websites repo is around, that may be a better group for you to join.
02:11:06 <mchua> I figure since you're all going to be going back and spreading the word about Fedora to your students, Marketing is actually a good place to be. ;)
02:11:16 * mchua runs the Marketing team and is highly biased about this though.
02:11:56 <transbot0> mchua has disconnected
02:12:34 <mchua> join #fedora-websites
02:12:36 <mchua> ergh
02:24:07 <mchua> #topic installing packages, becoming root, SSH
02:24:14 <mchua> #chair
02:24:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: mchua
02:24:22 <mchua> Ok... so why doesn't zodbot change the topic?
02:24:23 <mchua> eh.
02:25:28 <transbot0> jasonchong has disconnected
02:29:24 <kinchew> OK.  We are all back from our morning coffee break.  Now back to work!
02:29:56 <kinchew> Yes, it will be good if we are all on the Fedora Marketing Group.  But what is the expectation?
02:34:42 <kinchew> First do a yum install git at root.
02:35:17 <kinchew> Other options:  yum yum search git
02:40:55 <transbot0> roger_ch has joined: #teachingopensource-posse-zh
02:41:19 <transbot0> roger_ch> I am in now. Good Morning every body. Cheersx
02:45:28 <mchua> #link http://betterexplained.com/articles/intro-to-distributed-version-control-illustrated/
02:50:44 <kinchew> Do a ifconfig to get the IP address of your PC.
02:51:02 <kinchew> Then do an ssh:  ssh root@IP-address.
02:51:38 <kinchew> Now create a user account for yourself:  useradd your-user-name.
02:52:03 <kinchew> Add a password for your new account:  passwd user-name.
02:57:41 <yipch> what is the last command for git.  not the init
03:01:16 <transbot0> martz927 has disconnected
03:03:24 <transbot0> roger_ch> to know git, you can type this command in Bash: man git
03:06:04 <transbot0> pohyee-cheong_ has disconnected
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03:24:11 <kinchew> http://dev.laptop.org/git/activities/speak/log
03:25:01 <kinchew> http://en.flossmanuals.net
03:25:54 <mchua> #link http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PracticalOSSEngineering/SourceCodeManagement
03:26:31 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Textbook_Project
03:29:10 <transbot0> Kaio has disconnected
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03:54:13 <kinchew> Mel is now talking about contributions to the Fedora Project.
03:56:34 <kinchew> git branch experiment
03:56:37 <kinchew> git branch
03:58:15 <kinchew> git checkout experiment
03:58:17 <kinchew> git branch
04:02:21 <kinchew> Two different copies of the same file.  Two repositories - Master and experiment.  How do we resolve the conflict?
04:03:10 <kinchew> git pull . experiment
04:05:35 <kinchew> The command "git pull . experiment" will combine the two different files and consolidate the changes into a new one.
04:18:22 <jaricsng> to check the difference in file
04:18:24 <jaricsng> git diff
04:18:49 <jaricsng> for graphical view of diff, use
04:18:53 <jaricsng> gitk
04:19:57 <jaricsng> to view the branches, use
04:20:01 <jaricsng> git branch
04:59:56 <transbot0> raeLLL has disconnected
05:04:38 <jaricsng> brb, all at lunch
05:22:17 <tira> hello jaricsng
05:22:28 <jaricsng> yo
05:22:34 <tira> hello kinchew
05:22:55 <tira> jaricsng : what's up maan?
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05:36:58 <mchua> hey raeLLL, we just covered git, so feel free to add any tips you've got on using git in here :)
05:41:13 <jaricsng> upcoming topic to be covered ...
05:41:24 <jaricsng> to rollout on the following situation
05:42:20 <jaricsng> 1. rollback a particular change and leave those before and after this versioin
05:42:35 <raeLLL> yesterday, does someone succeed "git clone http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/fedora-web.git", there network has restrictions, the native git:// protocol use 9418 port not allowed,
05:43:28 <jaricsng> yes, we managed to get the clone and perform a make
05:43:43 <raeLLL> someone has fedora account, also can "git clone ssh://git.fedorahosted.org/git/fedora-web.git", only ssh:// protocol can commit, push back to the remote site,
05:44:34 <raeLLL> jaricsng: wait for the 1 hour periodical synchronization, then your changes will appear on the web,
05:45:25 <jaricsng> so far cannot ssh, got permission denied for id@fedorapeople.org
05:46:06 <jaricsng> 2. rollback all to a particular point
05:47:41 <jaricsng> instead of using long weird version number with can give them a tag label, as follows
05:47:59 <jaricsng> git tab <the version number here>
05:48:12 <jaricsng> to display the available tags, do
05:48:14 <jaricsng> git tag
05:48:37 <transbot0> raeLLL has disconnected
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05:49:35 <raeLLL> /whois raeLLL
05:52:37 <jaricsng> 3. to display or view content for a particular version
05:52:53 <jaricsng> for viewing a particular version for pt 3, do
05:52:59 <jaricsng> git checkout <the version id>
05:57:13 <jaricsng> for revert checkin for a particular version point, do
05:57:22 <jaricsng> git revert <version id>
05:58:52 <kevix> '/whois MY-NICK-NAME' in irc tells you something about the person - ip address -clues to where they are geographically located -- but this can be masked/hidden
06:02:24 <jaricsng> to remove all revision from a point, do
06:02:42 <jaricsng> git reset <version id>
06:06:11 <raeLLL> jaricsng: you're the tutor yesterday?
06:10:39 <jaricsng> no, i am attending the class, Mel is conducting, I am taking notes :)
06:15:17 <mchua_> I'll dump some links on git here before we change the topic to bugzilla
06:15:23 <jaricsng> to publish changes to others, we uses
06:15:39 <jaricsng> git push <target git project location>
06:16:00 <jaricsng> and to get others stuff on our own repo
06:16:13 <jaricsng> git pull <source git project location>
06:16:43 <mchua_> #link http://betterexplained.com/articles/intro-to-distributed-version-control-illustrated/
06:17:07 <mchua_> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Git_Quickref
06:17:20 <mchua_> #link http://spheredev.org/wiki/Git_for_the_lazy
06:17:37 <mchua_> #link http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/everyday.html
06:17:59 <mchua_> #link http://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git-core/docs/v1.2.6/tutorial.html
06:18:07 <mchua_> #link http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/user-manual.html
06:18:52 <mchua_> #info the last link is *ridiculously* extensive
06:18:54 <mchua_> #topic bugzilla
06:31:44 <mchua_> #link http://bugzilla.redhat.com
06:54:35 <transbot0> tiansworld has disconnected
06:57:59 <kinchew> Mel and Harish have just finished explaining and show how Bugzilla works.
07:12:25 <transbot0> mchua has disconnected
07:14:08 <transbot0> raeLLL has disconnected
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07:31:39 * mchua is upfront now
07:32:05 <mchua> ricky: we used you and ian and sebastian as examples of good student work ;)
07:32:12 <mchua> #chair
07:32:12 <zodbot> Current chairs: mchua
07:32:19 <mchua> Cool, I have bot privs.
07:45:50 <martz927> hi kin chew
07:45:54 <martz927> u there?
07:51:28 <kinchew> Yes, Martyn, I am still here.
07:51:36 <kinchew> Mel is just covering patches.
07:51:50 <kinchew> Are you familiar with patches?
07:52:08 <kinchew> It is easy to do patches in Linux.
07:52:37 <kinchew> There are only 6 of us left in the class.
07:53:58 <kinchew> Do a "man patch" if you want to know more about the patch command.
08:00:27 <martz927> icic
08:00:49 <martz927> only left with 6?
08:01:46 <mchua> Ok - time to talk about IRC logging.
08:01:55 <mchua> #topic IRC logging with zodbot
08:02:03 <mchua> You might notice a user in this channel called zodbot.
08:02:19 <mchua> zodbot is an automatic IRC bot that we use to log IRC channels in Fedora.
08:05:37 <mchua-logging> Typing stuff into channel!
08:05:39 <mchua-logging> Have things to log!
08:05:43 <mchua-logging> Look, it's conversation!
08:05:50 <jaricsng> learning about logging using x-chat
08:05:54 <mchua-logging> yay!
08:06:06 <transbot0> raeLLL has joined: #teachingopensource-posse-zh
08:06:34 <tira> mchua: does the teachingopensource-posse pass through freenode and fedora chat servers?
08:09:10 <mchua> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org
08:09:24 <tira> mchua : fedora uses freenode and the logging of  the fedora channels is done by zodbot automatically. Zodbot runs on fedora site.
08:12:28 <mchua> #endmeeting