15:00:44 <jwb> #startmeeting
15:00:44 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep 10 15:00:44 2014 UTC.  The chair is jwb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:44 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:44 <jwb> #meetingname workstation
15:00:44 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation'
15:00:44 <jwb> #meetingtopic Workstation WG meeting
15:00:44 <jwb> #topic init
15:00:48 <jwb> #chair juhp cwickert otaylor mclasen cschalle ryanlerch ltinkl jwb kalev
15:00:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: cschalle cwickert juhp jwb kalev ltinkl mclasen otaylor ryanlerch
15:00:55 <jwb> hi everyone.  who's around today?
15:01:02 <juhp_> hi
15:01:08 <jwb> #chair juhp_
15:01:08 <zodbot> Current chairs: cschalle cwickert juhp juhp_ jwb kalev ltinkl mclasen otaylor ryanlerch
15:01:09 * mclasen is here, cschalle is up in the air
15:01:14 * cwickert is here
15:01:31 <jwb> #chair ryanlerch_
15:01:31 <zodbot> Current chairs: cschalle cwickert juhp juhp_ jwb kalev ltinkl mclasen otaylor ryanlerch ryanlerch_
15:01:41 <jwb> i think ryan should be joining us today as well now that he's back from PTO
15:01:51 <mclasen> yeah, I saw him yesterday
15:01:52 * ryanlerch_ is indeed here!
15:01:55 <jwb> yay
15:02:06 <jwb> i'll give the others just a minute to join
15:02:07 <jwb> brb
15:02:16 * satellit listening
15:04:13 <jwb> anyone heard from otaylor?
15:04:47 <jwb> kalev, around?
15:05:05 * mclasen goes to look for owen
15:05:09 <jwb> mclasen, he's here
15:05:35 <jwb> ok, let's get going.  i'm sure kalev will show up at some point
15:05:40 <jwb> #topic Alpha status
15:06:11 <kalev> hello
15:06:14 <jwb> so i tried the TC6 last week.  the netinstall iso is DOA in a kvm guest as anaconda segfaults and never starts
15:06:28 <jwb> the live iso boots fine though, and things appear to work as expected
15:06:42 <jwb> i think satellit hit the same issue i did with the netinstall iso
15:06:51 <jwb> satellit, did you file a bug for the "Pane is dead" thing?
15:07:09 <satellit> I think there is one ...looking
15:07:24 <juhp_> there is a bug on qa radar
15:07:29 <jwb> ok
15:07:48 <jwb> afaik, that is specific to the workstation netinstall iso, but not really something the WG deals with
15:07:59 <juhp_> .bug 1139015
15:08:01 <zodbot> juhp_: Bug 1139015 F21 Alpha TC6 network install fails with crash, hang, reboot or "pane is dead" - caused by anaconda segfault - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1139015
15:08:13 <jwb> juhp_, thanks!
15:08:25 <jwb> anyone have any other status on the Alpha at this point?
15:08:25 <juhp_> though I heard Live installer crashes in some cases too
15:08:32 <kalev> we had a meeting with sgallagh and bcl and dgilmore a few days ago how to make netinstall work
15:08:39 * mclasen did 2 live installs yesterday which both worked fine
15:09:06 <kalev> it turned out that anaconda folks had no idea that releng was planning on shipping different install trees for each product
15:09:26 <kalev> but I think everybody should be on the same page now and hopefully the installer issues get resolved soon
15:09:32 <jwb> kalev, yeah...  i recall that conversation
15:10:04 <kalev> another alpha thing is that yesterday the .91 update got pushed to stable
15:10:17 <kalev> and should appear in the next compose, whenever that is going to be
15:10:24 * satellit__e only for server netinstall....https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1139015
15:10:39 <jwb> #info gnome .91 update pushed to stable.  should be in next compose
15:10:57 <juhp_> aha
15:10:58 <kalev> of course, .92 is coming next week and if the alpha gets postponed any more
15:11:10 <kalev> we'll soon have a .92 update to try to get in alpha :)
15:11:32 <kalev> I think it's very valuable to have latest code tested in alpha
15:11:41 <satellit> .91 in workstation live (todays) koji
15:11:43 <kalev> otherwise it's just a waste of resources to retest old bugs again and again
15:11:58 * satellit f22 rawhide
15:12:01 <jwb> kalev, yeah.  depends on the freeze exception stuff though
15:12:08 * kalev nods.
15:12:16 <juhp_> true but of course also good to get alpha out of the door :)
15:12:28 <kalev> of course, best would be to get it out as fast as possible
15:12:37 <jwb> yes
15:12:44 <kalev> but if it gets delayed anyway, should probably try and make sure it includes the things we need tested
15:12:53 <juhp_> true
15:12:54 <mclasen> the .92 will have a bunch of bug fixes that came out of the gnome testday from a while back
15:13:02 <ryanlerch_> kalev, are there draft release notes anywhere for upstream GNOME that we can use to highlight new features that we get in the alpha from GNOME?
15:13:04 <juhp_> nice
15:13:15 <jwb> #info .92 update will contain bugfixes that came out of the GNOME test day
15:13:19 <kalev> ryanlerch_: I belive aday has been working on release notes, can you ask him?
15:13:33 <ryanlerch_> kalev, ack, will reach out to aday
15:13:35 <jwb> ryanlerch_, we also have the notes cschalle sent to the list
15:13:41 <jwb> which aren't GNOME specific
15:14:08 <jwb> ok, anything else for Alpha?  seems we're kind of waiting on releng/anaconda
15:14:20 <ryanlerch_> jwb, okies, will use those too. I'm planning on doing 1 or more posts for the magazine focusing on workstation
15:14:21 <kalev> nothing more from me
15:14:32 <jwb> ryanlerch_, great
15:14:38 <jwb> ok, let's move on
15:14:43 <jwb> #topic QT/KDE
15:14:48 <jwb> two parts to this one
15:15:10 <jwb> 1) the QT theming.  did we actually get anything related to this done for Alpha?  if not, is it on target for Beta?
15:15:14 <jwb> 2) KDE itself
15:15:40 <jwb> does anyone have an update on 1?  if not, i can try and figure it out later today
15:15:50 <kalev> I think Christian had someone working on 1, but he switched teams or something?
15:16:00 <jwb> yeah, that's the last i recall
15:16:02 <mclasen> was trying to get a hold of mbriza earlier to get an update from him
15:16:21 <jwb> mclasen, want to keep following up therE?
15:17:42 <jwb> #action jwb or mclasen to follow up on QT theming
15:17:49 <jwb> ok, KDE itself
15:17:50 <mclasen> yes, I'll take that
15:17:53 <jwb> mclasen, thanks
15:18:09 <jwb> so i talked to two different KDE sig members about KDE and workstation
15:18:30 <jwb> it seems the KDE SIG overall would rather work on their Plasma product efforts
15:18:56 <jwb> but there is at least one member that wishes to figure out how best to include KDE in workstation, which is something we've said several times was desired
15:19:25 <jwb> the question then becomes, how is the best way and is it something that's realistic for F21?
15:20:04 <jwb> i know there was discussion on having it as something that would be installed under software-installer, but that requires one to boot into GNOME first
15:20:16 <jwb> and then use GDM on the next boot to boot into KDE
15:20:18 <kalev> I think the plan was all along to have a way to install minimal KDE from the workstation software installer
15:20:19 <otaylor> jwb: I doubt having anythign GNOME Software (if that was desired) is feasible for F21 - so beyond that it's a question of making 'yum groupinstall @kde' work
15:20:54 <mclasen> putting 'other desktops' in the app installer met with quite some resistance from the designers, too
15:21:20 <juhp_> perhaps net install might be an option or Live Spin?
15:21:27 <jwb> mclasen, well... unless we install it by default how else would we expect someone to get it in a non-command line fashion?
15:21:54 <jwb> juhp_, for F21 there will still be the normal KDE spin.  but right now, we aren't doing anything at all for KDE within workstation itself
15:22:02 <juhp_> sure
15:22:08 <otaylor> jwb: I'm not sure having to log into gnome should be a big deal - the user already saw GNOME in the installer, and I think we're pretty clear that Fedora Workstation as a product always has GDM active and GNOME installed
15:22:12 <juhp_> jwb, true
15:22:23 <mclasen> the status of this task in the workstation task list is 'needs design'
15:22:45 <jwb> otaylor, sure.  i'm not arguing against that.
15:22:58 <kalev> it should be rather easy to do from the software installer implementation point of view, once we've got designs
15:23:13 <juhp_> for F22?
15:23:17 <jwb> so, does the WG think it's worthwhile for F21 to try installing KDE via yum and seeing how it works?
15:23:25 <kalev> of course, we'll run into issues like if we should install 2 file managers and 2 system settings apps and so on
15:23:42 <jwb> juhp_, yes, i think a more integrated way is probably pushed off to F22 at the earliest at this point
15:23:59 <ryanlerch_> having it in Software is the most logical place to have it, IMHO, if we have the option...
15:24:18 <ryanlerch_> not sure where else it would go, TBH
15:24:25 <jwb> ryanlerch_, me either
15:24:34 <kalev> aday would be a good person to discuss the designs with, if anyone has ideas how to put it there
15:24:46 <kalev> but for F22, too late for F21 at this point
15:25:30 <mclasen> ryanlerch_: partof the concern was that it kinda muddies the story of software as an _application installer_
15:25:43 <mclasen> and part of the concern was that it would not make kde people happy anyway
15:25:48 <ryanlerch_> unless you could do it from GDM, i.e. you click the KDE option from the session chooser, and it installs -- though that is a clunky idea (just a thought)
15:26:14 <juhp_> interesting idea
15:27:06 <jwb> mclasen, at this point i don't believe "making the KDE people happy" is the goal.  it would be nice if that is possible, but we need to look at this from a workstation perspective
15:27:37 <mclasen> I think 'make qt applications run and feel great' is more important than 'offer kde as an alternative'
15:27:54 <jwb> i agree it's the first priority
15:28:02 <ryanlerch_> mclasen, agreed
15:28:05 <jwb> at the same time, we've also said KDE should be a blocking desktop
15:28:15 <jwb> so what does that mean for workstation?
15:28:39 <jwb> either we're backing off of that for f21 and relying on the KDE spin to fulfill the blocking goal, or we need to actually try some things
15:29:17 <mclasen> sure, I guess being blocking means we need to install it and do some qa on it ?
15:29:23 <juhp_> so best bet currently is groupinstall?
15:29:30 <jwb> juhp_, seems so
15:29:38 <jwb> mclasen, sure
15:29:57 <jwb> anyone want to tackle that?
15:30:38 <jwb> i can ask ltinkl and maybe rdieter to try as well
15:30:43 <juhp_> I can have go at it - though I am not a kde user myself
15:30:50 <jwb> juhp_, thanks, sounds good
15:31:12 <juhp_> jwb, but yeah testers certainly welcome
15:31:16 <juhp_> more ^
15:31:19 <jwb> #info integrated way of installing KDE is out of scope for F21.  groupinstall likely the best option
15:31:31 <ryanlerch_> apologies if this has been covered in my time off, but do we have a set of QT apps identified to "test" the QT theming against?
15:31:35 <jwb> #action juhp_ to try KDE install on Workstation and see how it does.  more testers welcome
15:32:00 <jwb> ryanlerch_, we do not as far as i know.  that would be a good thing to figure out with mclasen and whoever is doing the theme work
15:34:05 <jwb> ok, anything else on this?  i think we covered the main things i wanted to
15:34:08 <satellit> /me will test in Workstation install....
15:34:17 <jwb> satellit, wonderful, thanks!
15:34:21 <juhp_> cool
15:34:26 <jwb> moving on
15:34:30 <jwb> #topic UX testing
15:34:47 * satellit this is Virtualbox but have HD install too
15:35:00 <jwb> so a few weeks ago, mizmo asked if the WG was interested in any kind of formal UX testing.  i think ryanlerch_ is also interested in this
15:35:03 <jwb> true ryanlerch_ ?
15:36:09 <ryanlerch_> jwb, definietly interested -- the big thing here is the workstation itself is such a broad thing to test -- any ideas on areas we want to focus on?
15:36:44 <mclasen> maybe some things relevant to 'developers' ?
15:36:50 <ryanlerch_> software installer and how it integrates with the workstation is probably a good one...
15:36:53 <sgallagh> I'm not a Workstation member, but perhaps we should focus in the short-term on whether key developer tasks are discoverable?
15:37:04 <sgallagh> (WG member, I mean)
15:37:13 <mclasen> thats what I meant, basically
15:37:26 <sgallagh> As in, can a user who wants to start doing Ruby development figure out how to do it without resorting to a Google HOWTO?
15:37:29 <jwb> langdon gave a good presentation on some of the typical developer "types" he's seen.  maybe review that again and do some testing around those?
15:37:55 * sgallagh nods
15:38:00 <mclasen> 'start a github project using ruby' or 'set up a development env for this preexisting project with eclipse'
15:38:06 <ryanlerch_> langdon is sitting next to me, he is just about to jump in...
15:38:21 <sgallagh> mclasen: Perhaps both
15:38:48 <ryanlerch_> jwb, that sounds like a good starting point
15:38:48 <mclasen> yeah, I just meant those to be examples of the kind of task that might be interesting to give to users
15:40:16 * jwb wonders if langdon is going to say anything
15:40:34 <sgallagh> jwb: Strangely, I think that may be the first time in history that this particular sentence has come up :)P
15:40:41 <jwb> heh
15:40:49 <langdon> harsh
15:41:10 <langdon> really its just "I agree:
15:41:20 <jwb> ryanlerch_, mizmo might not have seen the meeting invite, and even if she did it was probably confusing because i had the wrong date.  can you follow up with her on this?
15:41:28 * ryanlerch_ is happy to work on this this week w mo and langdon to try to get some initial test plans done...
15:41:35 <jwb> awesome
15:41:52 <jwb> i think from a WG perspective, this will really help us fix things that are highlighted as confusing or missing
15:41:58 <ryanlerch_> even a little bit of testing will be better than none :)
15:42:06 <jwb> the important thing for us is to actually listen.
15:42:28 <jwb> #action ryanlerch_ to work with langdon and mizmo on intial developer focused UX testing plans
15:42:29 * langdon forgot his tablet keyboard today
15:42:40 <ryanlerch_> i'll also review the testing that has been done recently upstream in GNOME to try to avoid testing a lot of the same stuff
15:42:47 <jwb> ryanlerch_, ah, good idea
15:43:12 <langdon> ryanlerch_: although conflicts may be interesting...
15:43:26 <jwb> conflicts would be good to know about, yes
15:44:08 <ryanlerch_> its more that there is *so much* that could be tested, id rather cover stuff that hasnt been touched :)
15:44:35 <jwb> heh, fair
15:44:43 <jwb> anything else on this?
15:44:45 <langdon> ryanlerch_: yeah.. its a balance
15:44:46 <mclasen> you could look at boxes with the angle of developer use of vms, e.g
15:45:06 <jwb> mclasen, yeah, great idea.  i know every time i've tried to use it, i wind up going back to virt-manager
15:45:17 <jwb> (note: i haven't tried the F21 version yet)
15:45:31 <juhp_> me too to be honest
15:45:32 <langdon> mclasen: any output from our boxes convo?
15:46:13 * satellit boxes worked for me f21 workstation ; installed SoaS fine
15:46:53 <mclasen> langon: sure, I think user testing would basically be an exploration of that discussion
15:47:18 <mclasen> langon: also, you should check out boxes in 3.14 - a bunch of feature work has landed late
15:47:38 <langdon> ahh cool
15:47:53 <jwb> ok, let's move on if there's nothing else major left for UX testing?
15:48:15 <mclasen> langdon: not to mention that I got you your off switch for terminal shortcuts...
15:48:28 <jwb> #topic Task list review
15:48:33 <jwb> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Tasklist
15:48:51 <jwb> ok, i just wanted to briefly look at the F21 items here and figure out if anything is incorrect
15:48:51 <langdon> mclasen: :)
15:49:14 <mclasen> I've done a bunch of shuffling on that task list last week
15:49:16 <jwb> looking it over, it seems the 'Optimus' and 'Terminal - long-running job notification' items might need to be pushed out to F22
15:49:38 <mclasen> yeah, whats currently still under f21 and not marked as done will be f22 material
15:49:52 <mclasen> with the exception of wayland keyboard layouts - still trying to get that landed
15:49:57 <mclasen> and possibly the qt theming work
15:50:06 <mclasen> once I get some status on that
15:50:24 <jwb> mclasen, for the items that have posted patches or 'in progress', are those likely to land in 3.14?
15:50:39 <mclasen> much of the terminal tasks is blocking on getting upstream buy-in for those changes
15:50:57 <jwb> so best to move them to F22 and move them back for F21 if they make it in?
15:51:02 <mclasen> getting those changes landed has been tough, and will continue to be so
15:51:15 <mclasen> we keep trying, but yeah - f22 at this point, I'm afraid
15:51:20 <jwb> ok
15:51:39 <jwb> and i think the 'better app data' item is fairly well along for f21, right?
15:51:58 <jwb> maybe not 100% complete, but enough that it's worth keeping in the f21 list
15:52:05 <kalev> yep, we should have pretty good coverage at this point
15:52:21 <ryanlerch_> i'm still plugging away at getting the appdata stuff -- its currently sitting at 36% coverage, but have a bunch in branches that i need to finalize and merge.
15:52:41 <ryanlerch_> my personal goal is to get it up near 50% or better
15:52:51 <jwb> ryanlerch_, do you think that's feasible in the next few weeks?
15:53:11 <mclasen> I didn't move that task to 'green DONE' because it is an ongoing effort
15:53:16 <jwb> yeah
15:53:28 <mclasen> we could split it into milestones, as you suggest and say '50% in f21'
15:53:29 <ryanlerch_> jwb, maybe ask me next week :) i havent really checked the status too deeply since getting back
15:53:41 <jwb> ryanlerch_, heh, ok.  will follow up later
15:54:00 <jwb> #action jwb to move some unlanded items to F22 list in wiki
15:54:09 <ryanlerch_> we do have a few good contributors that have been plugging away at it since i was gone, so that is good
15:54:27 <drago01> is this list used for some kind of "marketing" or just internal?
15:54:37 <jwb> drago01, internal mostly
15:54:42 <mclasen> 'this list' being the tasks ?
15:54:47 <drago01> yes
15:55:10 <mclasen> it started as an internal tracking page for our desktop team - to keep on top of who does what and why
15:55:16 <drago01> ok
15:55:21 <mclasen> so, not marketing
15:55:28 <langdon> drago01: although there was some discussion of using it as mktg to
15:55:49 * langdon arrgghhh too
15:56:07 <jwb> langdon, ?
15:56:55 <juhp_> langdon, heh
15:57:38 <langdon> so.. like to share with the community what was "new and cool" in wkstn.. discussion with cshaller some time ago
15:58:11 <laangdon> ok.. also me on ryans lappy
15:58:14 <jwb> oh
15:58:24 <jwb> yeah, sorry i was confused by the arggh
15:58:30 <laangdon> ha
15:58:31 <laangdon> sorry
15:58:38 <jwb> thought you were upset about the mktg thing :)
15:58:43 <laangdon> ok. jwb so no explanation reqd?
15:58:46 <jwb> no
15:58:50 <jwb> i'm good now
15:59:06 <jwb> ok, i think that covered what i wanted to cover today for this
15:59:10 <laangdon> jwb, cool and sorry for confusion..
15:59:24 <jwb> anyone have anything else on the task list, or another item?
15:59:51 <cwickert> !
16:00:02 <jwb> cwickert, go ahead
16:00:04 <cwickert> I'd like to quickly talk about the media for ambassadors
16:00:16 <cwickert> in the past we had one media, the so called multi desktop DVD
16:00:25 <jwb> #topic media
16:00:34 <cwickert> dual.arch with GNOME/Live, KDE, Xfce and LXDE
16:00:38 <cwickert> and SOAS I think
16:00:55 <cwickert> anyway, for F21 I would like us to have a separate workstation media
16:01:12 <cwickert> because we really want the world to know we are doing something different this time
16:01:33 <cwickert> do you all agree and are you fine with having it dual-arch?
16:01:35 <jwb> as far as i know, that multi DVD thing was made by someone that wasn't rel-eng.  was always confusing
16:01:49 <jwb> i'm fine with it being dual-arch workstation specific
16:02:11 <otaylor> cwickert: Is it going to be clear that you are supposed to install x86_64 unless you know better?
16:02:21 <cwickert> jwb: the iso was made by dgilmore and rel-end has an SOP for it
16:02:47 <cwickert> otaylor: isolinux will automatically boot x86_64 if the CPU supports it
16:03:02 <kalev> oh, that's actually pretty neat
16:03:13 <cwickert> otaylor: and we can still define a default for computers where the autodetection fails
16:03:25 <cwickert> so we could set the default to x86_64
16:03:43 <otaylor> cwickert: So basically you get x86_64 unless you choose something differnt at the isolinux prompt?
16:03:50 <jwb> i think that is how it works, yes
16:04:08 <cwickert> otaylor: yes, and we can also change the menu order to get x86_64 at the top
16:04:22 <cwickert> so I take this as x86_64 by default...
16:04:33 <otaylor> cwickert: I *dfintely* don't think people should get penalized for hitting return in isolinux because of impatience :-)
16:04:44 <cwickert> :)
16:04:51 <mclasen> the basic fact remains that you're going to distribute something that is not the qa'ed product, but some mashup
16:05:16 <ryanlerch_> 32 bit insnt QAed?
16:05:22 <jwb> ryanlerch_, he means the iso itself
16:05:34 <jwb> QA works with the official images.  this isn't what they test with
16:05:36 <cwickert> mclasen: well, that is not quite correct. it is composed of ISOs that are already QA'ed and there are some test cases for the isolinux stuff
16:06:14 <satellit> we have used 8 GB USB to test in past
16:06:33 <dgilmore> cwickert: it uses both grub and isolinux afaik, so it works with secureboot
16:06:36 <ryanlerch_> ah so the multi-arch iso isnt tested -- got it now
16:07:19 <cwickert> ryanlerch_: the isos it consists of are tested, plus we test all the entries boot.
16:07:29 <dgilmore> ryanlerch_: its created after a final release is declared gold
16:08:00 <dgilmore> there is testing done to make sure all the boot options work
16:08:03 <cwickert> well, we could just say screw i686
16:08:24 <juhp_> well it seems a positive thing for us that the Ambassadors will be able to distribute Workstation
16:08:47 <juhp_> though I see the QA concern
16:08:53 <cwickert> so do you want to kill i686 or are you fine with the ambassadors continuing the current dual-arch thing?
16:09:10 <cwickert> note this would also impact the size
16:09:19 <cwickert> currently we are at 1.2-1.3 GB
16:09:20 <mclasen> I think it is positive that we're getting closer to the actual product with this dual-arch thing
16:09:25 <dgilmore> many parts of the world i686 is still the main arch in use
16:09:26 <juhp_> yes
16:09:32 <cwickert> so it should fit on a single DVD no matter what
16:09:54 <cwickert> is the size going to change significantly?
16:10:08 <cwickert> I heared the server targets 4 Gb but they are currently ~2
16:10:11 <jwb> shouldn't, unless we start installing KDE by default (which i don't think we'd do)
16:10:18 <cwickert> ok then
16:10:29 <dgilmore> cwickert: we need to fit in a dual layer DVD, everything has gotten bigger so we likely will have to drop a spin to make it fit
16:10:31 <cwickert> and no, we don't want KDE, I want this the pure workstation product
16:10:54 <satellit> easy to use disks to restore .iso (dd)  to 8 GB USB (cheap) for multi
16:11:02 <drago01> dvd? i686? ... me feels like he travled 10 years back into the past ;)
16:11:04 <cwickert> dgilmore: no, this is only for the workstation for now. it should be separate from everything
16:11:37 <dgilmore> cwickert: so you are talking about a Workstation iso with 32 and 64 bit?
16:11:45 <cwickert> dgilmore: yes
16:11:46 <drago01> cwickert: are you using dvds or usb media or both?
16:11:48 <dgilmore> I would be against making that, but its not my call
16:11:58 <drago01> cwickert: some laptops (like mine) do not even have a dvd drive
16:12:05 <cwickert> dgilmore: if you give us money for USB keys to give away ;)
16:12:14 <cwickert> sorry, that was for drago01
16:12:15 <dgilmore> drago01: at events ambasadors give out dvd media
16:12:36 <cwickert> the ambassadors still might to decide they want to do a "alternate" DVD for KDE, Xfce, LXDE and MATE, but I think this should be totally separated from the product
16:12:39 <cwickert> I think you all agree
16:12:52 <drago01> cwickert, dgilmore : ok
16:13:03 <dgilmore> cwickert: I would ask what the point of it is? and where it should be in the release tree?
16:13:22 <cwickert> dgilmore: I don't get the second part of that question
16:13:37 * jwb notes we're over time
16:13:50 <cwickert> ok then, I will bring this up on the list
16:13:55 <dgilmore> cwickert: /pub/fedora/linux/release /pub/alt/releases/Multi
16:13:59 <jwb> i don't think anyone in the WG disagreed with cwickert's recommendation.  can we work out the details on-list?
16:14:11 <cwickert> jwb: ok
16:14:30 <jwb> #action cwickert to work out details of dual-arch workstation ambassador DVD on list
16:14:36 <dgilmore> cwickert: where it should go will effect how strongly I oppose the creation of it
16:14:36 <cwickert> dgilmore: I will get back to you once the WG and the ambassadors have made up their minds, ok?
16:14:49 <jwb> thanks for bringing this up cwickert
16:14:52 <cwickert> np
16:14:56 <kalev> thanks cwickert
16:15:07 <dgilmore> in /pub/fedora/linux/release will make mirrors unhappy
16:15:31 <juhp_> agreed
16:16:05 <jwb> ok, i'm going to end the meeting.  next meeting is on Sept 24th
16:16:18 <jwb> #info next Workstation meeting is Sept 24th.
16:16:23 <jwb> thanks everyone!
16:16:29 <juhp_> yay thanks
16:16:30 <jwb> #endmeeting