15:00:54 <mcatanzaro> #startmeeting Workstation WG
15:00:55 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb 10 15:00:54 2016 UTC.  The chair is mcatanzaro. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:55 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:55 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg'
15:01:07 <mcatanzaro> #meetingname workstation
15:01:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation'
15:01:14 <mcatanzaro> #topic Roll call
15:01:30 * otaylor is here
15:02:01 <mcatanzaro> #chair mclasen___ otaylor kalev rdieter_work
15:02:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: kalev mcatanzaro mclasen___ otaylor rdieter_work
15:02:19 <mcatanzaro> #chair juhp
15:02:19 <zodbot> Current chairs: juhp kalev mcatanzaro mclasen___ otaylor rdieter_work
15:02:26 <mclasen____> I'm sorry, I have to send my regrets for today - have to run out to the dentist now
15:02:45 <mcatanzaro> Shiny teeth shiny teeth shiny teeth!
15:04:41 <mcatanzaro> otaylor: I think two is not a quorum.
15:04:54 <otaylor> mcatanzaro: indeed
15:05:06 <mcatanzaro> #chair rdieter
15:05:06 <zodbot> Current chairs: juhp kalev mcatanzaro mclasen___ otaylor rdieter rdieter_work
15:05:14 <kalev> hello!
15:06:09 <mcatanzaro> OK, four folks, one short of quorum... close enough, let's get started.
15:06:13 <mcatanzaro> #topic Wayland readiness
15:06:55 <rdieter> hi
15:07:05 <mcatanzaro> So, the purpose of today's meeting is to evaluate whether Wayland support has progressed sufficiently for us to be comfortable with enabling it by default in Fedora 24.
15:07:44 <mcatanzaro> I think mclasen and cschaller were to report on that, but we have neither of them here.
15:09:13 <mcatanzaro> So... of the folks who are here, is anyone using the Wayland session regularly?
15:10:00 <kalev> I haven't used rawhide in a while
15:10:46 <rdieter> not i
15:11:23 <otaylor> I'm not on rawhide at the moment. I also have trouble remembering to switch back to wayland if I need to switch to X - I never want to log out when I think of it
15:13:16 <mcatanzaro> The most important question is: what sort of regressions are we willing to accept?
15:13:16 <Southern_Gentlem> to be honest we are still seeing wayland issues for some users in #fedora i think wayland needs to cook some more before it is the default
15:13:30 <Southern_Gentlem> push to f25
15:13:53 <rdieter> Southern_Gentlem: I assume you're talking about f23 users?
15:14:00 <Southern_Gentlem> rdieter, yes
15:14:24 <rdieter> what kind(s) of issues?  things that may be fixed or be fixable in f24?
15:14:27 <mcatanzaro> It's certainly not ready in F23; file choosers get created with the wrong size, context menus appear in random places, Empathy crashes constantly (so I could not run this meeting under Wayland)
15:15:13 <mcatanzaro> We need a provenpackager to fix Empathy, anyone want to take care of that? (Package up a git snapshot?)
15:16:30 <rdieter> I may be able to, if there are no new fires starting later today
15:16:46 <mcatanzaro> WebKit does not have Wayland clipboard support yet; that's unlikely to be done before F24 as nobody is working on it.
15:17:19 <mcatanzaro> And there is a large list of missing features here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wayland_features though I am not sure how up-to-date that page is
15:17:22 <mcatanzaro> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wayland_features
15:18:13 <mcatanzaro> No input methods, no on-screen keyboard look like blockers.
15:18:19 <rdieter> I guess that may be a good step 0: verify correctness of that wiki page
15:18:28 <rdieter> if it is, the decision looks easy (not ready)
15:18:55 <rdieter> or just assume the page is accurate unless proven otherwise
15:19:29 <mcatanzaro> That list of missing features is quite large.
15:21:48 <mcatanzaro> Looks like mclasen has been editing the page quite recently, so I think it's mostly accurate.
15:23:49 <mcatanzaro> Anyway, feature freeze for 3.20 is this Monday, so I think it's safe to assume the final state of this list for F24 is not going to be much different. I am inclined to say this is a no-go, any objections?
15:25:13 <mcatanzaro> Since we don't have a quorum, this would not be any final decision made today, but just a recommendation.
15:25:15 <otaylor> mcatanzaro: That's probably the right decision, but I'm not really comfortable voting on this with limited people present
15:26:05 <otaylor> mcatanzaro: It's not jsut a question of quorum, but nobody here seems to that up on the state of rawhide
15:27:11 <rdieter> no_go++
15:27:40 <otaylor> I'm abstaining on this
15:27:43 <mcatanzaro> At one point, I believe we also represented that we would only switch to Wayland by default once the previous Fedora release had fully-functioning Wayland, and that's clearly not the case in F23. (I'm not sure that's necessarily a good requirement, though.)
15:30:23 <mcatanzaro> #info No quorum today, but also no support for switching to Wayland at this point.
15:31:31 <mcatanzaro> OK, that's all that was on the agenda for today, as I wanted to leave this meeting free to focus on the Wayland situation, so we'll end early now.
15:31:47 <mcatanzaro> Please remember there is another meeting next week (not two weeks from now), which stickster will chair as usual.
15:32:14 <mcatanzaro> Thanks everyone!
15:33:15 <mcatanzaro> #endmeeting