13:00:36 <stickster> #startmeeting Workstation WG
13:00:36 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jul 17 13:00:36 2017 UTC.  The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:00:36 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:00:36 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg'
13:00:39 <ryanlerch> .hello ryanlerch
13:00:40 <zodbot> ryanlerch: ryanlerch 'Ryan Lerch' <rlerch@redhat.com>
13:00:40 <stickster> #meetingname workstation
13:00:40 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation'
13:00:43 <stickster> #topic Roll call
13:00:47 <stickster> .hello pfrields
13:00:48 <zodbot> stickster: pfrields 'Paul W. Frields' <stickster@gmail.com>
13:01:10 <kalev> .hello kalev
13:01:11 <zodbot> kalev: kalev 'Kalev Lember' <klember@redhat.com>
13:01:32 <ryanlerch> whoops, got in before the topic change
13:01:35 <ryanlerch> .hello ryanlerch
13:01:38 <zodbot> ryanlerch: ryanlerch 'Ryan Lerch' <rlerch@redhat.com>
13:02:19 <stickster> lol, no worries
13:02:23 <stickster> #chair ryanlerch kalev
13:02:23 <zodbot> Current chairs: kalev ryanlerch stickster
13:02:33 * stickster goes off to look for other folks
13:04:20 <stickster> #chair juhp_
13:04:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: juhp_ kalev ryanlerch stickster
13:04:34 <stickster> #chair otaylor
13:04:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: juhp_ kalev otaylor ryanlerch stickster
13:04:53 <stickster> #chair mcatanzaro
13:04:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: juhp_ kalev mcatanzaro otaylor ryanlerch stickster
13:05:06 <mcatanzaro> .hello catanzaro
13:05:07 <zodbot> mcatanzaro: catanzaro 'Michael Catanzaro' <mcatanzaro@gnome.org>
13:05:23 <stickster> o/ folks
13:05:52 <stickster> Here is our agenda for today:
13:05:57 <stickster> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issues?status=Open&tags=meeting
13:06:26 <stickster> #topic Initial setup redundancy
13:06:29 <stickster> #link
13:06:31 <stickster> oops
13:06:38 <stickster> #unfo
13:06:40 <stickster> oh god
13:06:41 <stickster> #undo
13:06:41 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x3ef8ce90>
13:06:49 <stickster> It's going to be one of *those* Mondays apparently
13:06:55 <stickster> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/21
13:08:03 <mcatanzaro> So this seems likely to get FESCo approval.
13:08:23 <stickster> mcatanzaro: I saw a number of folks commenting on our list but I don't know that I've seen any anaconda devs there, any offline conversation with them we haven't seen?
13:08:28 <juhp_> hi
13:08:35 <mcatanzaro> My message has not made it to anaconda-devel@ yet because the moderators have lost the list password.
13:08:41 <mcatanzaro> At least the list moderators are aware. :D
13:08:56 <ryanlerch> oh dear
13:09:04 <mcatanzaro> I am a bit surprised that no anaconda devs have commented in the change proposal thread. I suppose they might not read devel@.
13:09:41 <juhp_> hmm
13:09:55 <mcatanzaro> Anyway, I think the change is likely to be approved by FESCo and the moderators are likely to recover control of the list. I don't have anything else to discuss today.
13:10:01 <kalev> I've been away for last 3 weeks on a vacation, but looks like a good change to me at first glance
13:10:49 <stickster> mcatanzaro: I'm going to touch base with the list owners to see whether they resolved that... if nothing else, it doesn't bode well for any community list when the moderators can't do their job
13:10:51 <kalev> I assume fesco is going to ask if anaconda developers are on board with this, so if you could poke them to reply it would be awesome :)
13:11:05 <mcatanzaro> This happens to lists all the time.
13:11:14 <stickster> Yup, it's easy to resolve too
13:11:24 <ryanlerch> mcatanzaro: the recent post on the magazine about anaconda referenced the change request right at the bottom
13:11:35 <stickster> Nice
13:11:39 <ryanlerch> 99% sure the author was an anaconda dev
13:11:49 <stickster> Yes, it was mkolman IIRC
13:11:55 <mcatanzaro> Of course this could all be resolved by my joining the mailing list, but I don't want to do that. :)
13:12:22 * stickster doesn't care where the discussion happens, but it needs to happen, not thrown over the wall
13:12:24 <kalev> mcatanzaro: why not? you should be able to join the list but turn off email delivery
13:12:24 <mcatanzaro> ryanlerch: OK, well it seems they are aware then!
13:12:38 <mcatanzaro> kalev: I didn't know that.
13:12:45 <stickster> let's not assume
13:13:34 <stickster> There's also IRC #anaconda I believe
13:13:46 <stickster> no list membership required there either
13:14:18 <juhp_> email is probably more transparent but doesn't hurt to use irc too
13:15:19 <juhp_> :)
13:15:21 <stickster> mcatanzaro: I'm asking you to visit the anaconda folks in whatever venue is mutually agreeable to check plans/gather input
13:17:38 <stickster> making sure that proposed changes aren't known to cause some crazy breakage
13:18:25 <stickster> #action mcatanzaro get in touch with anaconda devs in some mutually happy venue to discuss proposed setup changes
13:18:38 <mcatanzaro> okidokie!
13:19:03 <stickster> #action stickster get with anaconda-devel-list owners and make sure their lost password is resolved
13:19:09 <mcatanzaro> I've already tested it so I know it already works... the main problem is the last page of the installer is pretty empty with only a progress bar at the very bottom and everything else hidden. So that's the most important thing to get changed.
13:19:34 * stickster wonders if the banner size is dynamically growable
13:19:58 * mcatanzaro wonders if we could remove the banner
13:20:01 <mcatanzaro> ;)
13:20:37 <stickster> for even more emptiness...
13:21:07 * ryanlerch wonders if the banner shows in server installs
13:21:31 <stickster> ryanlerch: I don't know. I do seem to recall the bannering is also customizable by product/edition/whatever
13:21:36 <ryanlerch> the banners definietly need a refresh
13:21:54 <ryanlerch> i can open a ticket for that one, and look into it
13:21:56 <stickster> yeah, they're quite long in the tooth
13:22:40 <stickster> ryanlerch: sure. we can debate whether we want them, and if so, how to freshen them up
13:23:24 <mcatanzaro> Actually I think somebody was working on refreshing them already. With Marian.
13:23:43 <mcatanzaro> I just don't know that anything is going to look good down there, but maybe.
13:23:50 <mcatanzaro> Anyway, installer banners are not a very pressing issue. :)
13:23:53 * stickster wouldn't be surprised -- ryanlerch, is it possible mshakshober was working on that? I really don't know.
13:23:59 <stickster> mcatanzaro: agreed
13:24:13 <ryanlerch> stickster: maybe -- i'll chase it up
13:24:15 <stickster> #action ryanlerch look into anaconda banner situation, who's working on it now
13:24:20 <stickster> OK, moving on.
13:24:30 <stickster> #topic F26 retrospective
13:24:33 <stickster> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/22
13:24:59 <stickster> I didn't see any other comments on this ticket
13:25:44 <kalev> ahh, you mention gnome-software background, let me see if I can fix this today for f24 and f25
13:25:47 * kalev was gone for 3 weeks.
13:25:49 <stickster> There were numerous good things that happened in the release. One of them was having good bug response, even in late game where there were ugly issues with (IIRC) gjs, tracker
13:26:34 <stickster> kalev: yeah, you beat me to it... the gnome-software background issue was only an annoyance, not debilitating. But honestly this is something no one should have to do manually
13:27:41 <stickster> OTOH I'm guessing any fix there would basically transfer the problem elsewhere
13:27:42 <ryanlerch> stickster: oh -- i should have said something -- i noticed that when getting the screenshot, but just assumed it was becuase it was pre-release
13:27:44 <kalev> I think best would be to have a way for gnome-software to download the image from somewhere, so we wouldn't have to update the old release rpms with new images
13:28:01 <stickster> kalev: yeah -- it basically makes that image Someone Else's Problem
13:28:14 <kalev> there's a pkgdb api where it gets the release info
13:28:30 <kalev> ohhhhhh I wonder if gnome-software upgrades are going to break when pkgdb is going away?
13:28:35 * kalev just realized.
13:28:38 <stickster> kalev: oooooooh yes
13:28:56 <stickster> kalev: Thanks! Can you file an issue at https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issues so that we track that right away?
13:29:07 <kalev> sure
13:29:21 <stickster> my understanding is we will get that release information from something like https://pdc.fedoraproject.org
13:29:49 <stickster> https://pdc.fedoraproject.org/rest_api/v1/releases/
13:31:01 <stickster> Sorry, was looking at the API response there.
13:32:04 <stickster> So we need to fix that. Another thing that ryanlerch and I will address on the Magazine side is the issue about having a "What's new in Fxx Workstation" article ready. We had that fixed quickly, but for a little < 1 hour people who pressed the "More Details" button (not sure of wording) in g-soft upgrade window got a 404 error :-(
13:32:04 <juhp_> Logged in as _963381d9c7304d94808ac05f2a550040 8-)
13:32:24 <mcatanzaro> kalev: hughsie has already implemented that (download the image from somewhere) in F26. Of course I presume someone still has to upload the image to somewhere!
13:32:44 <mcatanzaro> At least, that's what he said when we noticed the problem on release day.
13:32:47 <stickster> mcatanzaro: ah, awesome!
13:33:16 <stickster> so maybe we just need to ask the design team to prepare a X*Y image and put it in that place as part of artwork tasks
13:33:31 <kalev> ahh cool
13:33:43 <kalev> filed https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/23 for the pkgdb API issue
13:33:43 <ryanlerch> stickster: might also want to think aboutcoming up with a different tagline in that box too
13:34:04 <stickster> kalev++
13:34:04 <zodbot> stickster: Karma for kalev changed to 1 (for the f26 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:34:13 <ryanlerch> its been "more polish" something something, for the last couple of releases
13:34:30 <stickster> ryanlerch: sure, my bet is that's a simple PR we could send hughsie
13:35:02 <ryanlerch> stickster: just wondering if that is something the WG would come up with / approve before a release
13:35:33 <ryanlerch> i.e. and idea to add the generation of the tagline to the SOC
13:35:35 <stickster> ryanlerch: Yes, we could -- if we want to do that every release, though, we should start building that into an SOP that we track in a ticket, and then just turn it over every GA day
13:35:53 <stickster> ryanlerch: SOC?
13:35:54 <kalev> is it something that we could figure out for F27 _now_ ? The GNOME 3.26 translation freeze is approaching shortly and we wouldn't be able to get translatable strings in gnome-software afterwards
13:36:16 <stickster> kalev: no reason not to, we've got a few minutes free here
13:36:43 <ryanlerch> kalev: it would be fedora-specific though, right?
13:36:46 <kalev> cool, I can easily update the strings upstream then
13:36:56 <kalev> yes, fedora-specific
13:37:17 <ryanlerch> we would keep a fedora-specific string for that upstream?
13:37:34 <mcatanzaro> Wow, we're only one month from string freeze for F27... that's how mucked up our schedule has become....
13:37:42 <juhp_> yeah
13:37:49 <stickster> Right now it's: "A major upgrade, with new features and added polish."
13:37:51 <kalev> ryanlerch: yes, we have the fedora-specific strings upstream
13:38:03 <ryanlerch> kalev: okie dokie!
13:38:28 <kalev> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/tree/plugins/fedora-pkgdb-collections/gs-plugin-fedora-pkgdb-collections.c#n303 has the strings
13:38:28 * mcatanzaro glad mattdm has proposed very Workstation-friendly schedules for F28/F29
13:38:31 <ryanlerch> https://cdn.fedoramagazine.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/gnome-software-f25-f26-upgrade.jpg
13:38:57 <stickster> How specific should we get here? I ask because in the event we miss upgrading this text, it could look really silly for the following release
13:39:22 <stickster> "Check out <X> thing that we already did last release" :-P
13:39:34 <kalev> high level is probably a good idea :)
13:40:02 <ryanlerch> it's making more sense now that it hasnt been changed in the past :P
13:40:23 <stickster> "Upgrade your Fedora system with the latest features and improvements."
13:40:51 <stickster> this seems like not much of an improvement ^ sorry
13:40:57 <ryanlerch> we can't really reference workstation here can we?
13:41:20 <stickster> No, because chances are good people are using g-soft on other editions (at least Server, maybe other spins)
13:41:45 <stickster> not a Server default, I'm just saying it's possible to put a desktop on top of that
13:41:45 <kalev> could have a different text for workstation and non-workstation I guess, it's easy enough to check it there
13:42:17 <stickster> kalev: oh, using /etc/os-release or something?
13:42:21 <kalev> yep
13:42:24 <stickster> coolio
13:42:40 <juhp_> or could there be a generic fallback image?
13:42:41 <kalev> we already have a os-release parser there and it's only to check one more additional key there
13:43:00 <stickster> kalev: actually... we send people to a Workstation article with the Learn More button
13:43:03 <ryanlerch> stickster: +1 on your re-write, FWIW
13:43:09 <kalev> sure, if someone can figure out a generic fallback image ... I added the blue background because I couldn't come up with a better fallback :)
13:43:23 <juhp_> kalev: okay sure
13:43:34 <juhp_> maybe this is good enough
13:43:40 <stickster> kalev: the fallback seems not-terrible to me, and thankful it was there :-)
13:44:16 <juhp_> cool
13:44:41 * stickster doesn't want to grind too long on this small point, so I'll just propose it
13:44:47 <kalev> of course, same as with the background, it would be awesome to have an API to download the text from somewhere
13:45:05 <stickster> #proposed #agreed change g-software upgrade text to "Upgrade your Fedora system with the latest features and improvements."
13:45:13 <kalev> +1
13:45:24 <stickster> kalev: *nod, just thinking that is probably not something PDC would want to inherit
13:46:07 <juhp_> stickster: basically sounds fine - perhaps the text can be polished more i feel
13:46:33 <stickster> we can always revisit next release, it's a pretty easy fix
13:46:35 <juhp_> "to the latest features and improvements"?
13:46:39 <juhp_> sure!
13:46:47 <stickster> juhp_: "to" sounds fine to me, consider it amended
13:46:57 <juhp_> okay
13:47:10 <stickster> ryanlerch: mcatanzaro: ?
13:47:15 <mcatanzaro> +1
13:47:27 <ryanlerch> +1 to juhp_ amendment
13:47:31 <stickster> I'm +1 to myself because I'm agreeable that way
13:47:42 <stickster> kalev: you OK with amended "to"?
13:48:17 <kalev> sure, since the english speaking people all +1'd then I'm fine with it too :)
13:48:20 <stickster> #proposed #agreed change g-software upgrade text to "Upgrade your Fedora system with the latest features and improvements."
13:48:23 <stickster> #undo
13:48:23 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x3fe26690>
13:48:27 <stickster> oh bugger
13:48:39 <stickster> #agreed change g-software upgrade text to "Upgrade your Fedora system to the latest features and improvements."
13:48:40 <juhp_> "Upgrade your Fedora system to the lastest version with new features and improvements"?
13:48:46 <juhp_> anyway....
13:48:48 <stickster> juhp_: too wordy
13:48:52 <juhp_> okay
13:49:11 * stickster wields editor hacksaw :-D
13:49:18 <juhp_> hehe
13:49:27 <stickster> So to action the g-soft stuff here...
13:49:39 <juhp_> I just feel it doesn't quite capture the full spirit of an upgrade :)
13:49:41 <stickster> kalev: you want to get the new string in?
13:49:46 <kalev> yep, doing it now
13:50:01 <stickster> juhp_: yeah, it's hard to make it sound fun without tripping some people's "stop marketing at me" wire
13:50:07 <juhp_> right
13:50:30 <stickster> Personally I'd be fine with more unicorns and rainbows, but not everyone would be
13:51:01 * stickster wields optimist glitter :-D
13:51:20 <stickster> I feel like there are a couple actions back there to handle too
13:51:28 <stickster> #action kalev get new string into g-software
13:52:18 <stickster> #action stickster consult on X*Y image location and dimensions needed for retrieval in g-software, ask Design team to add to their wallpaper SOP
13:52:33 <stickster> ryanlerch: kalev: mcatanzaro: juhp_: Did I miss anything there ^
13:53:09 <stickster> #action kalev ensure that PDC API is the right place to retrieve release info for g-software and make appropriate changes
13:53:18 <stickster> OK, *now* I think I got everything :-D
13:53:29 <ryanlerch> stickster++
13:53:38 <kalev> pushed the string change, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?id=23d8a2d4a0b7296a20af985071f2e18ec84a1fbd
13:53:50 <ryanlerch> kalev++
13:53:50 <zodbot> ryanlerch: Karma for kalev changed to 2 (for the f26 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:53:58 <stickster> kalev++ -- sorry, I already gave you a cookie, but I'd give you more if I could :-)
13:54:15 <mcatanzaro> kalev: "Upgrade your Fedora system *with* the latest features and improvements"
13:54:30 <stickster> mcatanzaro: we amended
13:54:30 <mcatanzaro> Or actually, even better: "*for* the latest"
13:54:34 <stickster> lol
13:54:55 <mcatanzaro> I know I'm 15 minutes too late here :)
13:55:10 <mcatanzaro> I really like "for" though!
13:55:15 <stickster> each of these prepositions has its own charm... different connotations but all of them are good.
13:55:48 <stickster> let's take that to #fedora-workstation when done here.... honestly I'm OK with any of them :-)
13:55:51 <stickster> fwiw
13:56:20 <kalev> you english speaking people figure it out and I'm happy to update it again if needed :)
13:56:20 <stickster> #topic All other business (open floor)
13:56:25 <stickster> kalev: lol, you got it :-)
13:57:12 <stickster> #info stickster hooked up our #fedora-workstation IRC channel with fedmsgs from Pagure last week
13:57:16 <stickster> #link https://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/cgit/ansible.git/commit/?id=2e51c4f77bede16bff1e81cf5abe24b851fc5205
13:57:58 <stickster> Now we get notices in the channel when issues get added, changed, closed, etc. in our repo
13:58:04 <stickster> <eof/>
13:58:21 <kalev> awesome!s
13:58:26 <kalev> stickster++
13:58:28 <zodbot> kalev: Karma for pfrields changed to 8 (for the f26 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:59:29 * stickster is getting ready to close meeting, any objections?
14:00:21 <juhp_> I wanted to bring up about automatic initial installation of langpacks
14:00:39 <stickster> juhp_: oof, that sounds like a long topic, is it urgent for today?
14:00:54 <mcatanzaro> How about we put that first on the agenda for the next meeting?
14:00:56 <juhp_> no
14:00:59 <juhp_> yes
14:01:04 <juhp_> sure
14:01:09 <mcatanzaro> OK bye :)
14:01:16 <juhp_> it may be discussed at GUADEC too
14:01:24 <stickster> juhp_: file a ticket in https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issues and tag it with "meeting" and we'll be sure to hit it next time
14:01:29 <juhp_> okay
14:01:42 <juhp_> I think next time is during GUADEC
14:02:33 <stickster> juhp_: maybe we should hit #fedora-workstation then
14:02:39 <juhp_> okay
14:02:39 <stickster> or the list
14:02:43 <juhp_> yep
14:02:44 * stickster has to jump to his other meeting
14:02:47 <juhp_> makes sense
14:02:51 <stickster> Thanks for coming everyone!
14:02:56 <stickster> #endmeeting