14:01:06 <stickster> #startmeeting Workstation WG 14:01:06 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 6 14:01:06 2017 UTC. The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:01:06 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 14:01:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg' 14:01:09 <stickster> #meetingname workstation 14:01:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation' 14:01:11 <stickster> #topic Roll call 14:01:14 <stickster> .hello pfrields 14:01:15 <zodbot> stickster: pfrields 'Paul W. Frields' <stickster@gmail.com> 14:01:27 <mcatanzaro> .hello mcatanzaro 14:01:30 <zodbot> mcatanzaro: Sorry, but you don't exist 14:01:37 <mcatanzaro> .hello catanzaro 14:01:38 <zodbot> mcatanzaro: catanzaro 'Michael Catanzaro' <mcatanzaro@gnome.org> 14:01:50 <stickster> #chair juhp kalev mcatanzaro ryanlerch 14:01:50 <zodbot> Current chairs: juhp kalev mcatanzaro ryanlerch stickster 14:01:57 * stickster goes off to find a few other people who should be around 14:02:04 <ryanlerch> .hello ryanlerch 14:02:04 <zodbot> ryanlerch: ryanlerch 'Ryan Lerch' <rlerch@redhat.com> 14:02:11 <juhp_> .hello petersen 14:02:12 <zodbot> juhp_: petersen 'Jens Petersen' <petersen@redhat.com> 14:02:13 <kalev> .hello kalev 14:02:15 <zodbot> kalev: kalev 'Kalev Lember' <klember@redhat.com> 14:03:08 <mcatanzaro> stickster: FYI, jbicha just noticed and reported: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/30#comment-477205 <-- no color emoji support in F27 still 14:03:18 <mcatanzaro> I didn't add the meeting tag to that issue, but maybe we should discuss it again 14:03:20 <mclasen> .hello mclasen 14:03:21 <zodbot> mclasen: mclasen 'Matthias Clasen' <mclasen@redhat.com> 14:04:07 <stickster> mcatanzaro: yes, let's do that first. 14:04:14 <stickster> #chair mclasen 14:04:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: juhp kalev mcatanzaro mclasen ryanlerch stickster 14:05:10 <otaylor> .hello otaylor 14:05:11 <zodbot> otaylor: otaylor 'Owen Taylor' <otaylor@redhat.com> 14:05:41 <stickster> #chair otaylor 14:05:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: juhp kalev mcatanzaro mclasen otaylor ryanlerch stickster 14:05:54 <stickster> #topic Color emoji not in F27 14:05:57 <cschalle> .hello cschalle 14:05:57 <zodbot> cschalle: Sorry, but you don't exist 14:06:15 <stickster> try '.hello uraeus' ? It uses FAS username IIRC 14:06:21 <stickster> #chair cschalle 14:06:21 <zodbot> Current chairs: cschalle juhp kalev mcatanzaro mclasen otaylor ryanlerch stickster 14:07:19 <stickster> #info mcatanzaro noted the comps and package updates have not been picked up, could be due to not having a freeze exception bug filed? 14:07:23 <stickster> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/30#comment-477205 14:08:21 <mclasen> the bodhi update has been in testing for 2 months ? 14:08:23 <mcatanzaro> stickster: I don't know about comps. The package update: yes, we were already in final freeze when it was submitted to stable two weeks ago. 14:08:27 <mcatanzaro> mclasen: Yes 14:08:36 <mcatanzaro> mclasen: Autopush was disabled because it received negative karma 14:08:43 <mclasen> swell 14:08:48 <mcatanzaro> So hadess had to send it manually, which he did two weeks ago, after final freeze 14:09:02 <mcatanzaro> This is not the first time we have lost important updates, btw, due to maintainers not noticing that autopush is turned off 14:09:30 <cschalle> can we set it up to be zero day update? 14:09:32 <mcatanzaro> mattdm posted in the issue: "Please file a FE bug immediately and we'll see if we can get it in." 14:09:54 <mcatanzaro> cschalle: We don't need to do anything for it to be a zero day update, it will go to stable immediately 14:10:02 <stickster> I assume that means we don't have an accepted RC yet 14:10:24 <mattdm> When things are important, we shouldn't count on autopush anyway. 14:11:29 <mcatanzaro> IMO we should not block release on this, but if there's a chance it can go in, a freeze exception would be great. 14:11:54 <mclasen> developer attention is a limited resource 14:12:08 <mattdm> So is QA attention :) 14:12:18 <stickster> mcatanzaro: mattdm: wouldn't the comps change fix this *without* overriding the -1 here? 14:12:21 <kalev> I don't think we'll need the update if the comps pull request gets merged 14:12:24 <stickster> or is this -1 not legitimate? 14:12:28 <stickster> kalev++ 14:12:44 <mclasen> it is just an opinion, without arguments to support it 14:12:46 <mattdm> the -1 in the bug? 14:12:54 <stickster> mattdm: in the bodhi update. 14:12:56 <mcatanzaro> stickster: The -1 is a difference in opinion as to the best way to implement the change... I agree that the Requires feels icky, but I think it is needed for upgrades 14:13:09 <mattdm> yeah, what mclasen says. 14:13:10 <mcatanzaro> The comps change is enough for fresh installs, but not enough to make upgrades work. 14:13:19 <mcatanzaro> So the update is more important IMO. 14:13:22 <mattdm> "Recommends" might also work, but that's bikeshedding 14:13:25 <mcatanzaro> (As that covers both.) 14:13:39 <mattdm> The package _already_ requires another font and icon themes 14:13:58 <kalev> as far as I know, for everybody who has the workstation comps group installed, they should get new additions to the group automatically when updating an older release 14:14:12 <stickster> Makes sense. OK, no qualms on the update here. 14:14:43 <mcatanzaro> kalev: How would that work? That has not been our understanding for a long time; we've frequently made decisions based on the assumption that something added to comps will not affect upgrades. 14:15:00 <stickster> kalev: can you file a FE bug for this? I'll touch base with #fedora-qa and also invoke mattdm there to see that it gets included in next RC 14:15:15 <mattdm> as far as attention: since this is a cool feature that users will notice, this probably should have been filed as a Change, and then PgM should watch the details 14:15:27 <kalev> stickster: sure, let me do that 14:15:48 * mclasen has no idea what PgM is 14:15:48 <stickster> #action kalev file FE bug to get bodhi update for gnome-themes-standard included 14:15:56 <stickster> PgM = Program Manager 14:16:23 <stickster> For us that's the fabulous Jan Kurik 14:16:40 <mcatanzaro> "Release status of the Fedora 27 Final is NO-GO." <-- sent 6 minutes ago :( 14:16:45 <mcatanzaro> So we'll be able to have color emoji for sure 14:16:48 <stickster> yup 14:16:55 <stickster> #action stickster talk to Fedora QA to make sure FE bug can be included in next RC 14:17:04 <juhp_> mattdm: +1 14:17:13 <stickster> kalev: just hit me back with a BZ# in #fedora-workstation once it's there 14:17:18 <mattdm> We're asking Jan to get more involved in sheparding changes through to closure, so that should help address the developer attention as scarce resource problem 14:17:37 <mattdm> But that's more for similar things in the future, not for right now 14:17:38 * mclasen won't even try to understand that abbreviation 14:17:41 <stickster> Well, I'm not sure that addresses the *problem* as much as the symptom 14:17:50 <stickster> But I get what you mean 14:18:18 <mattdm> (mclasen: PM can be "project manager", "product manager", "program manager", so for whatever reason "program manager" gets a "g" to distinguish) 14:18:27 <mattdm> (I don't make this stuff up. Just going along with convention!) 14:18:57 <mclasen> we did have a workstation ticket for color emoji - but that is not the right list to put it on ? so we need to double the paperwork ? 14:19:22 <mattdm> if "paperwork" means "communicating with other people", then I guess yes? 14:19:45 <mattdm> But Jan can help with the paperwork aspect too. Just need to bring him in. 14:20:01 * mattdm signs jkurik up for stuff while he's not here :) 14:20:35 <stickster> Also, there's an aspect here that we could have probably resolved that ticket better just in the WG 14:21:03 <stickster> Live and learn 14:21:49 <stickster> I think we have this handled atm, anything else to cover here? 14:22:52 * stickster notes we have two more issues currently tagged 'meeting' and both are sitting in an uncertain state not ready for any WG decision per se 14:25:28 * stickster ponders for a moment how to handle 14:26:18 * mcatanzaro still wants to remove setroubleshoot without replacement 14:26:21 <mcatanzaro> ;) 14:26:40 <mcatanzaro> I don't expect anybody to volunteer to do the work to integrate its functionality into ABRT 14:27:17 <kalev> stickster, mattdm: FE request: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1509996 14:27:21 <stickster> Thanks kalev 14:28:07 <stickster> mcatanzaro: That issue makes me sad because it feels like a lost opportunity to get some developer teams to work together. 14:28:31 <mcatanzaro> It could still be. I don't know how issues are prioritized within RH. ;) 14:30:21 * stickster tries to pull some strings 14:32:23 <stickster> mcatanzaro: I'm going to see if I can persuade some activity here so we can move forward :-) 14:33:01 <stickster> not sure if we can make this happen by F28 but it's not impossible 14:33:28 <mclasen> teams ? 14:33:28 <stickster> what needs to happen is people getting out of their "work on our own stuff only" comfort zone 14:33:53 <stickster> it's not about making the app better, it's about making the whole flow better for users 14:34:08 <stickster> mclasen: I don't understand your query 14:35:02 * mclasen drops it 14:35:55 <stickster> Oh I see -- that was in response to me earlier. I see it would be a good opportunity for the SELinux and the desktop/GNOME folks to work together on making the user experience way better. 14:36:00 <ryanlerch> stickster: is there any sort of ticket / bug for this task yet at all (just out of interest...) 14:36:18 <stickster> ryanlerch: We have https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/24 14:36:28 <stickster> Oops, I never topic'd this. 14:36:36 <stickster> #topic setroubleshooter path forward 14:36:39 <stickster> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/24 14:37:25 <stickster> #action stickster talk to cschalle, mgrepl, et al. to see if we can have some time invested to get closer to https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/OS/ProblemReporting 14:38:22 <stickster> #topic All other business 14:38:53 <stickster> OK, open floor -- if anyone has anything further, you're welcome to bring it up now. If it's a decision or involves work, you should also file an issue so we can track it. 14:41:46 <kalev> I have a topic -- GNOME 3.26.2 megaupdate 14:42:32 <kalev> 3.26.2 is the final planned GNOME update where we put out a coordinated releases 14:42:53 <mcatanzaro> You could get a freeze exception for it TBH 14:42:54 <kalev> but it only came out last week and as such, didn't make the F27 GA cut 14:43:11 <stickster> mattdm: ^ FYI 14:43:16 <kalev> we have it in updates testing now and I was wondering how people feel, is this something that we should ask a FE for 14:43:17 <mcatanzaro> Better IMO to do it now and find problems if it breaks something, than do it next week and let all users get the problems anyway.... 14:43:21 <mcatanzaro> But whatever 14:43:22 <kalev> as we just slipped a week. 14:43:44 <kalev> mcatanzaro: yes, I am leaning that way too 14:43:50 <mcatanzaro> We just don't want to risk another slip 14:44:09 <mcatanzaro> But that's a quirk of our QA process. Our users are going to be affected by any potential regressions no matter what. 14:44:39 <mcatanzaro> Actually kalev, I changed my mind already... I saw someone complaining on reddit that 3.16.2 broke screen unlock pretty badly. Maybe safer to wait. 14:44:50 <stickster> any change adds risk at this point 14:45:10 <stickster> kalev: do you have a bodhi update URL for the megaupdate? 14:45:10 <mattdm> yeah, let's ship this thing 14:45:25 <stickster> kalev: just so anyone here interested can at least test? 14:45:40 <kalev> stickster: https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2017-040483b1f1 14:45:48 * stickster would be happy to try it and file bugs, if nothing else to avoid a zero-day uggh 14:46:25 <stickster> #info Please test out the GNOME 3.26.2 megaupdate at https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2017-040483b1f1 14:48:58 <stickster> Anything else to cover? 14:49:55 <kalev> nothing more from me 14:51:34 <ryanlerch> nothing here. 14:52:12 <stickster> OK, per usual I need to go prep for another meeting, so that's a wrap! 14:52:19 <stickster> Thanks for coming, everyone. 14:52:20 <stickster> #endmeeting