14:00:52 <kalev> #startmeeting Workstation WG
14:00:52 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 18 14:00:52 2019 UTC.
14:00:52 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:00:52 <zodbot> The chair is kalev. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:52 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:52 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg'
14:00:52 <kalev> #meetingname workstation
14:00:52 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation'
14:00:57 <kalev> #topic Roll call
14:01:00 <mcatanzaro> .hello catanzaro
14:01:01 <zodbot> mcatanzaro: catanzaro 'Michael Catanzaro' <mcatanzaro@gnome.org>
14:01:01 <kalev> who's around today?
14:01:17 <aday> .hello aday
14:01:19 <zodbot> aday: aday 'None' <aday@redhat.com>
14:01:30 <aday> help me. i'm so empty inside
14:01:41 <kalev> ha :)
14:01:56 <cmurf> .hello chrismurphy
14:01:57 <zodbot> cmurf: chrismurphy 'Chris Murphy' <bugzilla@colorremedies.com>
14:02:02 <kalev> #chair mcatanzaro aday cmurf
14:02:02 <zodbot> Current chairs: aday cmurf kalev mcatanzaro
14:02:31 * kalev waits for a few more people to show up.
14:04:10 <kalev> aday pinged cschalle, but I can't see anybody else missing on irc
14:04:39 <cmurf> 6h11m remaining in this flight
14:04:58 <kalev> plenty to finish the meeting!
14:05:19 <aday> that's 5 with Son_Goku
14:05:20 <kalev> #chair Son_Goku
14:05:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: Son_Goku aday cmurf kalev mcatanzaro
14:05:25 <kalev> great, let's get started then
14:05:47 <aday> aaaaand cmurf is gone
14:05:59 <Son_Goku> .hello ngompa
14:06:00 <zodbot> Son_Goku: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
14:06:07 <aday> typically you count quorum from the start of the meeting? :)
14:06:10 <kalev> I'm looking at the tickets with meeting tag and nothing particularly pressing stands out to me
14:06:14 <kalev> aday: I don't know :)
14:06:33 <kalev> there's two tickets that we keep tabling that needs cschalle
14:06:44 <cmurf> famous last words he says
14:07:09 <cmurf> more than the disconnect, i'm troubled by 100% CPU used by this webchat tab...
14:07:35 <kalev> #info table "#84 Automatically install the OpenH264 codecs" and "#105 Ship fedora-workstation-repositories on install media" until we have cschalle
14:07:59 <kalev> #chair petersen
14:07:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: Son_Goku aday cmurf kalev mcatanzaro petersen
14:08:15 <kalev> ha, managed to #chair him between disconnects
14:08:54 <kalev> anybody have any pet issues to discuss today?
14:09:15 <kalev> if not, I suppose we could discuss nano a bit more that ended inconclusively last time?
14:09:19 <juhp[m]> Hi
14:09:26 <kalev> #chair juhp[m]
14:09:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: Son_Goku aday cmurf juhp[m] kalev mcatanzaro petersen
14:09:32 <juhp[m]> .hello petersen
14:09:33 <zodbot> juhp[m]: petersen 'Jens Petersen' <petersen@redhat.com>
14:09:49 <cmurf> we have a quorum
14:09:58 <kalev> indeed
14:10:18 <kalev> #topic Install nano by default (should we make it the default terminal editor?)
14:10:21 <kalev> https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/103
14:10:50 <kalev> so, two weeks ago we had a narrow +4 vote to add nano to the default install (but not change $EDITOR)
14:11:02 <cmurf> What's the vote tally? Last I checked it was +5 to add nano.
14:11:04 <kalev> since then, aday voiced concerns that it's pointless to just add another editor
14:11:12 <kalev> sec, phone
14:11:34 * aday notes that voting is only needed if we fail to reach consensus
14:12:14 <kalev> cmurf: I counted +4 last time, but I may have miscoutned
14:12:26 <cmurf> nano is small, common, and has a self-descriptive interface, so i still think it's a low cost high value addition; perhaps then revisit the default text editor next cycle?
14:12:38 <kalev> yes, I think I agree with cmurf
14:13:13 <kalev> it's an easy way to appease people who are coming from ubuntu/debian to make sure the cli editor they are used to is available
14:13:23 <kalev> vim is great, but is ... not that beginner friendly
14:13:39 <Son_Goku> imo, vim is a terrible default editor :)
14:13:40 <kalev> we can easily ship both and make more users happy
14:13:50 <juhp[m]> Right
14:14:02 <mcatanzaro> Our default editor is not vim, it is vi
14:14:10 <mcatanzaro> vi is harder than vim, like vim except you can't see what mode you're in ;)
14:14:10 <kalev> but changing the default I disagree with. I think vim is a great default editor as we are targetting programmers, much more so than nano
14:14:19 <juhp[m]> Actually it should be a fedora default, not WS default
14:14:37 <Son_Goku> kalev, I've met more programmers who have no idea what the hell to do in vim
14:15:02 <Son_Goku> vim knowledge is a very weird expectation from developers
14:15:04 <juhp[m]> vim is big, I used to suffering vi ;)
14:15:14 <mcatanzaro> Anyway no strong preference from me here, as far as I'm concerned users who are opening terminals don't need handholding
14:15:21 * kalev nods.
14:15:28 <smooge> if you want big you can always go to vile
14:15:36 <aday> mcatanzaro, i would strongly disagree with that
14:15:39 <Son_Goku> smooge, even bigger emacs-evil :)
14:15:48 <kalev> anyway, I think we are in a wild agreement here to add nano as another editor
14:16:07 <aday> it's really common for people to have to use a terminal for config
14:16:09 <kalev> aday: do you agree with what I wrote above how it makes sense to add nano as a second editor?
14:16:13 <aday> just look online at all the tutorials and guides
14:17:06 <kalev> yep, that's a good point: online tutorials that say 'nano /etc/blah-blah' all start working if we include nano
14:17:16 <cmurf> i like that
14:17:28 <juhp[m]> smooge: lol
14:17:39 <aday> kalev, i don't remember seeing tutorials that specify an editor
14:18:06 <kalev> aday: what did you mean then with "just look online at all the tutorials and guides" above?
14:18:39 <aday> i meant that a lot of people get exposed to the terminal
14:18:49 <kalev> ahh, ok
14:19:30 <Son_Goku> quite a lot of them mention nano
14:19:50 <Son_Goku> it's an intuitive simple editor and it's included by default in all distro families except for RH and SUSE
14:19:52 <aday> and again, i'd consider myself to be a reasonably technical user who struggles to use vim
14:20:03 <Son_Goku> I personally struggle with vim too
14:20:08 <aday> and i wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of other users like that
14:20:08 <juhp[m]> I am okay with adding nano - though I don't feel strongly about it, I just don't see it as a WS specific issue
14:20:15 <aday> so i could do with some handholding :)
14:20:29 <juhp[m]> Are we thinking to add it only for WS?
14:20:38 <kalev> yes
14:20:48 <aday> i think we should concentrate on the question of the default first
14:21:11 <aday> otherwise we'll end up having conflicting discussions
14:21:22 <cmurf> question: do we have any concern with Workstation differing from Server?
14:21:28 <juhp[m]> Me too, I should try nano again perhaps
14:21:32 <cmurf> either with respect to including nano or making it the default?
14:21:49 <Son_Goku> I think we should consider proposing it as a Fedora-wide default
14:21:57 <Son_Goku> there's no particularly good reason to not try
14:22:09 <aday> agree
14:22:18 <juhp[m]> If we are going to add it, it should be next to vi imo
14:22:20 <kalev> cmurf: I don't have any concerns to _add_ nano. making it the default only on workstation I think is not a good plan as then tutorials would have to differ between Server and Workstation
14:22:46 <cmurf> OK so I think that means we need coordination.
14:22:54 <aday> it would be interesting to see if we can frame this question as a testable hypothesis
14:23:03 <Son_Goku> I think making it a System-wide Change is not a bad idea
14:23:16 <aday> "a sizable % of fedora users don't know how to use vim"
14:23:32 <aday> that's something you can test
14:23:40 <cmurf> And also put the two questions up for CoreOS and Cloud folks.
14:23:46 <aday> "many online guides specify nano"
14:23:58 <juhp[m]> Probably the people who know how to use vi, use vim, hehe
14:24:07 <kalev> sizable fedora users are used to using vim and now need to relearn to be able to commit with git if we change the default $EDITOR
14:24:38 <Son_Goku> we could make the default change set via a subpackage that doesn't get installed on upgrades
14:24:49 <Son_Goku> but fresh installs would get the package by default (obviously)
14:24:56 <aday> kalev, maybe that's "sizable % prefer vim to other editors" ?
14:25:10 <kalev> aday: sounds about right
14:25:28 <kalev> Son_Goku: we have a workstation rule that distro upgrades should try to get the same package set as clean installs
14:25:42 <Son_Goku> kalev, we already don't do that
14:25:48 <kalev> or an aspiration, let's say
14:26:20 <kalev> anyway, let's run the questions through votes just to see where we stand
14:26:43 <mcatanzaro> I think  $EDITOR is empty by default
14:26:53 <kalev> vote 1: Add nano to Workstation default install in addition to vi (without changing $EDITOR)
14:26:55 <cmurf> how can I check?
14:27:10 <cmurf> these are straw votes right?
14:27:18 <kalev> I don't know what straw votes means
14:27:19 <mcatanzaro> At least it is empty on my system; I guess that means it's a free-for-all for each application to decide "what is the default terminal text editor"
14:27:21 <juhp[m]> Boot Live?
14:27:28 <mcatanzaro> kalev: vote just to see what people are thinking, not a real vote
14:27:47 <cmurf> kalev: non-binding, it's a way of building concensus by iterating the votes to see where people are at
14:27:53 <aday> is the only benefit to installing nano but not changing the default that instructions pasted into a terminal will work?
14:28:10 <kalev> sure, can do a straw vote if people want to drag this out even more ...
14:28:20 <juhp[m]> Are we doing a vote for Fedora wide too?
14:28:31 <juhp[m]> Lol
14:29:00 <cmurf> that's why I'm saying straw vote, our vote doesn't really matter anyway because we just more or less agreed that it wouldn't be a great idea if only Workstation changes its default
14:29:15 <cmurf> either default editor, or default installed editor
14:29:28 <juhp[m]> Nod
14:29:30 <cmurf> if nano is there for workstation but not server, I'd be a little annoyed
14:29:46 <kalev> that's for the server wg to decide if they want nano
14:29:50 <cmurf> or in fact first I'd be a little confused, then annoyed
14:31:05 <kalev> we've been at this for 30 minutes
14:31:09 <cmurf> i think we should avoid fragmenting the editions with what basic tools are installed by default
14:31:23 <mcatanzaro> aday, benefit is you don't need to connect to the internet to install a reasonably-usable text editor
14:31:40 <aday> mcatanzaro, i'm a bit meh to that :)
14:31:53 <aday> you could make the same argument for pre-installing anything
14:32:17 <mcatanzaro> vi is *really* hard to use if you're not used to it, even if you're familiar with vim
14:32:26 <juhp[m]> It's a cli tool
14:32:29 <kalev> a cli text editor is a recovery tool that comes useful to make the internet connection work if it's not there
14:32:32 <Son_Goku> #proposal: Submit a Fedora 32 System-Wide Change to propose changing the default terminal text editor to nano
14:32:37 <mcatanzaro> My argument is vi shouldn't be the only way to edit things without 'sudo dnf install'
14:33:03 <kalev> #chair otaylor
14:33:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: Son_Goku aday cmurf juhp[m] kalev mcatanzaro otaylor petersen
14:33:07 <juhp[m]> Well if it doesn't become Fedora default then we could add it for WS only
14:33:13 <aday> how does someone know that nano is installed/available?
14:33:27 <kalev> aday: they try 'nano /etc/blah-blah' and it errors out if it's not
14:33:39 <mcatanzaro> FWIW I'm undecided on setting a default (seems we have no strong arguments here either way) but having it installed makes sense to me
14:33:45 <aday> kalev, that's a bit of a leap of faith
14:33:50 <juhp[m]> Which reminds me we noticed with F31 differences in installed fonts between WS and SB...
14:33:55 <kalev> aday: that's how CLI works ...
14:33:58 <aday> what if someone doesn't know about nano in the first place
14:34:05 <mcatanzaro> Also if we do set it as $EDITOR then we need to decide exactly where and how, so as to not override user selection
14:34:07 <aday> "i want to edit foo.txt"
14:34:17 <kalev> aday: then they have to google about editing files on linux
14:34:26 <aday> what if they're using git from the cli for the first time?
14:34:40 <juhp[m]> We could add it to WS first and then additionally propose as a fedora default package...
14:34:46 <kalev> git uses $EDITOR by default. I belive it's set to vi by default, but I may be wrong
14:35:09 <cmurf> kalev, how to check the value of $EDITOR ?
14:35:13 <Son_Goku> if `$EDITOR` is unset, lots of things assume vi
14:35:14 <kalev> cmurf: echo $EDITOR
14:35:17 <cmurf> i've got a default installation now
14:35:24 <juhp[m]> Nod
14:35:32 <cmurf> returns nothing
14:35:42 <juhp[m]> Right
14:35:47 <cmurf> well it returns a blank line
14:35:49 <mcatanzaro> So git just picks vi when $EDITOR is unset
14:35:53 <aday> git from the cli should be a prime use case that we design for, imo
14:35:59 <kalev> aday: agreed
14:36:05 <aday> i don't think we can expect people to know how to change the default
14:36:17 <cmurf> agreed
14:36:17 <otaylor> If someone is coming from Ubuntu (or Windows) and 'git commit' drops them into vi - that's certainly not very friendly
14:36:19 <aday> i mean, i don't know how
14:36:21 <mcatanzaro> "By default, Git uses whatever you’ve set as your default text editor via one of the shell environment variables VISUAL or EDITOR, or else falls back to the vi editor to create and edit your commit and tag messages."
14:36:38 <mcatanzaro> otaylor++
14:36:38 <zodbot> mcatanzaro: Karma for otaylor changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
14:36:43 <juhp[m]> So we set EDITOR to nano for new users?
14:37:07 <cmurf> Should one of us simply propose a system-wide change making nano the default editor? Or should I float this by the edition working groups first?
14:37:33 <otaylor> Apparently Ubuntu (and probably Debian) has EDITOR set to editor, and 'editor' is updated via alternatives
14:37:36 <Son_Goku> yes
14:37:43 <cmurf> I'm really reluctant for editions to fragment in regards to basic tools like editing files
14:37:51 <kalev> let's do a series of (binding) votes now that we have a nice quorum, and have the system-wide change question in there too to see if WOrkstation WG supports it
14:37:52 <aday> otaylor, ah that would be nicer
14:37:53 <mcatanzaro> cmurf, system-wide change seems straightforward enough
14:37:57 <kalev> let me lay out the votes and then do them one by one
14:37:58 <juhp[m]> Sounds like a good F32 Change to me
14:38:08 <otaylor> aday: the main difference is per-user versus system-wide
14:38:10 <Son_Goku> otaylor, so we want to import the /usr/bin/editor thing?
14:38:28 <kalev> vote 1: #agreed Add nano to Workstation default install in addition to vi (without changing $EDITOR)
14:38:32 <otaylor> aday: this really seems more per-user, so I don't initially love the /usr/bin/editor thing
14:38:45 <mcatanzaro> +1 vote 1
14:38:49 <Son_Goku> +1
14:38:52 <otaylor> +1 vote 1
14:38:53 <cmurf> +1
14:38:59 <kalev> +1 vote 1 for me too
14:39:14 <juhp[m]> Are these votes exclusive?
14:39:37 <kalev> what does that mean+
14:39:50 <aday> i still don't particularly see the point without changing the default
14:40:13 <juhp[m]> Hm I think better to vote from general to specific, sorry
14:40:33 <cmurf> (arguably the votes are being done out of order, because if I learned that any other WG were opposed to including nano by default or making it the default editor, I'd probably vote -1 on vote 1)
14:40:35 <kalev> I was trying to lay out votes but people already started voting
14:40:42 <otaylor> I also don't see much point in nano without making it the default
14:40:55 <juhp[m]> cmurf: exactly
14:41:10 <cmurf> kalev, OK it wasn't clear you didn't want us to vote
14:41:23 <kalev> sorry
14:41:31 <kalev> anyway, let me try to lay out the votes now I think make sense
14:41:34 <kalev> vote 1: #agreed Add nano to Workstation default install in addition to vi (without changing $EDITOR)
14:41:57 <juhp[m]> I see
14:42:00 <kalev> vote 2: #agreed Change Workstation default $EDITOR to nano
14:42:29 <kalev> vote 3: #agreed Workstation WG would like to change Fedora default editor from /usr/bin/vi to /usr/bin/nano
14:42:32 <juhp[m]> I vote for 2
14:42:48 <juhp[m]> Oops
14:43:02 <juhp[m]> I meant #3
14:43:17 <aday> vote 3 is us trying to change the default editor for all the editions?
14:43:20 <kalev> so this is the series of votes I thought makes sense to do
14:43:31 <kalev> yeah, but we don't have the power to just change it, so it's just voicing support
14:43:31 <juhp[m]> I think you mean EDITOR
14:43:37 <Son_Goku> +1 for vote 3
14:43:42 <mcatanzaro> vote 2: +0; vote 3: +1
14:44:04 <cmurf> OK so the total votes are 1, 2, 3 - there is no 4 coming?
14:44:19 <kalev> that's all from me, unless someone else wants to add one
14:44:36 <kalev> let's do the votes in mcatanzaro's format, that was a good one
14:44:37 <cmurf> anyone?
14:44:45 <aday> still not sure what vote 3 means
14:45:27 <kalev> it means replacing vi with nano in the default install for all fedora editions
14:45:33 <otaylor> I'm +1 for vote 3 - to try to do the addition and change across the editions
14:45:54 <kalev> I am: vote 1: +1, vote 2: 0, vote 3: 0
14:46:16 <aday> kalev, thanks
14:46:53 <kalev> do we have a volunteer for driving a fedora wide change?
14:46:57 <aday> right now i'm: vote 1: -1, vote 2: +1, vote 3: +1
14:46:59 <otaylor> I'm a little ? for what we should do if that gets rejected - I think I'm still +1 for #1 / #2 - I don't see making things worse for the workstation in hopes that Fedora users will train themselves to use vi before trying out Fedora on a server or container
14:47:10 <otaylor> But it would be a bit of a mess
14:47:18 <Son_Goku> vote 2: +1 (provided our change proposal fails)
14:47:59 <otaylor> If we propose this FEdora-wide, we'll have to answer questions about what this means for minimization
14:48:15 <aday> it would also help to have some data
14:48:17 <Son_Goku> I think those will be easy questions to answer
14:48:27 <juhp[m]> vote 1: 0; vote 2: -1; vote 3: +1
14:48:28 <otaylor> I don't know how nano compares to vim-minimal
14:49:18 <Son_Goku> it's smaller
14:50:27 <aday> do we have the capacity to run surveys?
14:50:56 <juhp[m]> It might be worth a thread on devel list? Or Discourse
14:52:05 <cmurf> devel@ thread happens automatically as part of system-wide change
14:52:31 <aday> i would much prefer to gather data rather than opinions
14:52:34 <juhp[m]> True nod
14:52:36 <kalev> sooo, let's see. if I counted it correctly, we have vote 1 (+1:5, 0:1, -1:-1); vote 2 (+3:, 0:2, -1:1); vote 3 (+1:5, 0:1, -1:)
14:52:58 <kalev> how much is quorum again? 5 votes or did that change to 6?
14:53:12 <kalev> to pass votes
14:53:38 <Son_Goku> it's 5
14:54:17 <kalev> so looks like vote 1 to just add nano passes, vote 2 to change the $EDITOR just for workstation does not pas, and vote 3 to suggest changing the default system wide passes
14:54:31 <Son_Goku> yep
14:54:32 <kalev> #agreed Add nano to Workstation default install in addition to vi (without changing $EDITOR) (echo $EDITOR)
14:54:35 <kalev> gree
14:54:38 <kalev> grrr
14:54:38 <otaylor> aday: Though I'm not sure if *usage* of nano in the fedora base says much
14:54:39 <kalev> #undo
14:54:39 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: AGREED by kalev at 14:54:32 : Add nano to Workstation default install in addition to vi (without changing $EDITOR) (echo $EDITOR)
14:54:44 <cmurf> this is fun because strictly, there should only be 9 voting members but we have 10; quorum should therefore be 6 (majority of the membership) but to the letter, 5 is majority of 9
14:54:57 <kalev> #agreed Add nano to Workstation default install in addition to vi (without changing $EDITOR) (+1:5, 0:1, -1:1)
14:55:00 <otaylor> aday: I think the main argument is that it's an editor that doesn't trap you when run and displays help text by default
14:55:07 <cmurf> so we really need to clean up our governance document and get it approved by fesco
14:56:02 <mcatanzaro> cmurf, I have a draft for that in the pagure issue
14:56:03 <kalev> #agreed Proposal to change Workstation $EDITOR to nano does not pass (+1:3, 0:2, -1:1)
14:57:05 <kalev> #agreed Workstation WG would like to change Fedora default editor from /usr/bin/vi to /usr/bin/nano (+1:5, 0:1, -1:0)
14:57:10 <cmurf> ok wait
14:57:23 <cmurf> quorum means "you have enough people to have a meeting and make binding decisions"
14:57:42 <mcatanzaro> Doesn't mean "you need six +1 votes to pass issues" yes
14:58:18 <mcatanzaro> Our governance document says we need to give everyone a week to vote and hold the vote on mailing lists so let's not get too much into the weeds about the rules here, we've been ignoring them since the WG was founded
14:58:22 <aday> otaylor, we talked about testing things like familiarity with vim, preference for vim
14:58:27 <cmurf> once you have quorum, it is often true that a majority vote of members present carries
14:58:41 <cmurf> so again, governance doc, and what rules are we following
14:59:02 <mcatanzaro> Rather we can update the rules to reflect how we actually operate (or wish to operate, aday still wants BlueJeans meetings I'm sure :)
14:59:12 <Son_Goku> I prefer Bluejeans meetings myself
14:59:20 <Son_Goku> but I tend to be outvoted :)
14:59:23 <kalev> anyway. is there anyone who wants to do the changes? mcatanzaro, cmurf?
14:59:24 <aday> mcatanzaro, and a supreme leader
14:59:36 <juhp[m]> At least on F31 WS nano doesn't pull in any deps
14:59:42 <aday> mcatanzaro, and a kanban
14:59:47 <kalev> add nano to default workstation and submit a system wide change proposal?
14:59:49 <aday> mcatanzaro, and free jam
14:59:56 <mcatanzaro> I'm not volunteering for this change proposal, soryr
14:59:59 <Son_Goku> kalev, yep
15:00:34 <kalev> #action Son_Goku to submit a system wide proposal to change the default installed editor from vi to nano
15:00:41 <Son_Goku> sure, why not
15:00:49 <Son_Goku> I don't think I have a change proposal for F32 yet ;)
15:01:05 <kalev> ah, I though you said "yep" because you wanted to do it
15:01:08 <aday> i could help write a change proposal
15:01:15 <Son_Goku> aday, that'd be greatly appreciated
15:01:16 <mcatanzaro> lol, thanks Son_Goku, good sport :P
15:01:25 <kalev> thanks Son_Goku :)
15:01:37 <Son_Goku> aday, I'm not great with writing these kinds of things
15:01:38 <juhp[m]> I will keep an eye out for it
15:01:40 <kalev> anyone want to take the other part to add nano to workstation?
15:01:47 <kalev> and then we need to wrap up
15:01:56 <Son_Goku> ah man, I gotta boogie
15:02:04 <mcatanzaro> kalev, I'll add nano to comps
15:02:14 <mcatanzaro> #action mcatanzaro to add nano to workstation-product comps
15:02:20 <kalev> excellent!
15:02:33 <kalev> ok, I have to go as well now, so let's wrap this up
15:02:34 <mcatanzaro> (Although we might want it in a non-workstation comps group)
15:02:40 <Son_Goku> mcatanzaro, probably
15:02:47 <mcatanzaro> (We can change comps later if Son_Goku's change is accepted)
15:02:53 <juhp[m]> Though just adding it Fedora wide should be less controversial
15:02:53 <kalev> mcatanzaro: please add it to workstation specific for now
15:02:57 <kalev> yeah
15:03:05 <juhp[m]> Thanks
15:03:15 <mcatanzaro> Son_Goku, why don't you write your change with instructions to remove it from workstation-product if the change passes
15:03:21 <Son_Goku> sure
15:03:24 <kalev> great :)
15:03:33 <kalev> ok, ending the meeting then! thanks Son_Goku and mcatanzaro
15:03:36 <kalev> #endmeeting