04:07:14 #startmeeting Workstation WG (2020-06-23) 04:07:14 Meeting started Thu Jun 25 04:07:14 2020 UTC. 04:07:14 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 04:07:14 The chair is cmurf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 04:07:14 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 04:07:14 The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg_(2020-06-23)' 04:07:16 #meetingname workstation 04:07:16 The meeting name has been set to 'workstation' 04:07:18 #chair cmurf 04:07:18 Current chairs: cmurf 04:07:45 #topic Rollcall 04:07:46 #info present: cmurf, aday, jens, felipe, langdon, neal, michael, langdon, mclasen, kalev, josef 04:07:48 #topic Minutes for 9 Jun meeting 04:07:50 #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/workstation/workstation.2020-06-09-23.32.log.html 04:07:52 #agreed No objections - approved 04:07:54 #topic Minutes for 16 Jun meeting 04:07:56 #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/workstation/workstation.2020-06-18-16.49.log.html 04:07:58 #info These only just made it to the mailing list, so it's deferred until next week. 04:08:00 #topic Announcements 04:08:02 #info None 04:08:04 #topic Follow-ups and status reports 04:08:06 #info Chris: started a draft nano proposal 04:08:08 Needs help from people who understand what the mechanism for the default editor is. 04:08:10 Neal: right now we don't have one. 04:08:12 Langdon: Is this the editor environment variable? 04:08:14 Michael: there are 2 methods, the environment variable and /usr/bin/editor which is Debian specific 04:08:16 Matthias: what's the UX goal? 04:08:18 Michael: you get nano when you do Git commit. 04:08:20 Langdon: what are the ramifications? Nano would end up in a bunch of places - in containers? 04:08:22 Chris: asks for consent on the change - kalev objects 04:08:24 Michael: suggests we just change the env variable rather than /usr/bin 04:08:26 Allan: flathub whitelist is waiting on council. some confusion over who should be dealing with it 04:08:28 (Jens: can we not call it whitelist?) 04:08:30 #topic Guidelines for preinstalled and non-removable apps 04:08:32 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/125 04:08:34 #info Not ready yet - deferred 04:08:36 #topic Default partitioning: solving the competition for free space 04:08:38 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/152 04:08:40 #info Main questions: are there other ideas/proposals forthcoming? Change 04:08:42 proposal deadline is June 30. 04:08:44 #agreed LVM thin partitioning, split partitions for /usr & /var, /etc & /home, not considered to be realistic. The choice is therefore between btrfs, xfs, ext4. 04:08:46 Michael: doesn't think that switching to XFS makes sense. 04:08:48 Owen: XFS is the default for other spins, so there is an argument for it 04:08:50 No shrinking is an issue, but an edge case. It's a legitimate option. 04:08:52 We don't need to whittle it down one by one. 04:08:54 Neal: shrinking can be an issue if someone wants to add Windows as a dual boot. 04:08:56 Owen: advantages of XFS - reflinks and consistency, more actively developed than ext4 04:08:58 Michael: any of the 3 options are better than what we have today 04:09:00 Chris: non-shrinkability of XFS would be an issue with homed and LUKS. With ext4, the user would have to log out then do an offline resize. system-homed could imply btrfs. 04:09:02 Owen: not entirely sold on systemd-homed. 04:09:04 Langdon: is there no encryption in btrfs? Neal: it needs to be used in combination with LUKS or dmcrypt. Native encryption is planned for this year. 04:09:06 Langdon: not possible to preserve /home with btrfs? Neal: you can preserve it just fine. When you reinstall with Anaconda you can do custom partitioning and mount at /home and not format it. 04:09:08 Chris: can we ask FESCo for their perspective on btrfs? 04:09:10 Josef: in his experience, RHEL storage looks at upstream and RHEL, not Fedora 04:09:12 Langdon: would prefer to speak to Red Hat storage/management for their input. Doesn't think that it's a FESCo decision. 04:09:14 Owen: the decision needs to be coordinated with RHEL storage. Doesn't mean we can't go with btrfs, but people need to be informed about it. 04:09:16 Owen: we need to go back with more details on the proposal. 04:09:18 Next steps: 04:09:20 1. Resolve RHEL questions 04:09:22 2. Owner for a alternative change proposal - xfs/ext4 04:09:24 3. Question for maybes on the btrfs question - what concerns about btrfs, what commitments would you like to see for btrfs? 04:09:26 Owen will take 1 forward. 04:09:28 Michael: question about the change proposal - will the btrfs change proposal be submitted for F33? Neal would like to. Langdon: we can submit the change and continue in parallel with other conversations. 04:09:30 Matthias: do we need a competing change? Can we combine the proposal: plain partition with btrfs by default or ext4 if you want it? 04:09:32 #action There will be a btrfs proposal before the weekend 04:09:34 #topic btrfs by default 04:09:36 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/153 04:09:38 #info A rough draft proposal is in the ticket. 04:09:40 What questions/concerns/commitments does the WG have for the proposal's owners? And does the WG have questions it would like to pose to FESCo? 04:09:53 #endmeeting