05:42:48 #startmeeting Workstation WG (2020-09-29) 05:42:48 Meeting started Thu Oct 1 05:42:48 2020 UTC. 05:42:48 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 05:42:48 The chair is cmurf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 05:42:48 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 05:42:48 The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg_(2020-09-29)' 05:42:50 #meetingname workstation 05:42:50 The meeting name has been set to 'workstation' 05:42:52 #chair cmurf 05:42:52 Current chairs: cmurf 05:43:05 #topic Rollcall 05:43:07 #info present: cmurf, mcatanzaro, mclasen, aday, tpopela, langdon, neal, otaylor 05:43:09 #info regrets wg members: 05:43:11 #info present guests: zac, dcavalca, feborges 05:43:13 #topic Approve 22 Sep minutes: 05:43:15 #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/workstation/workstation.2020-09-24-01.42.log.html 05:43:17 #agreed Approved, no objections 05:43:19 #topic Announcements 05:43:21 #info F33 beta is today 05:43:23 #topic Follow-ups & status reports 05:43:25 Matthias: GNOME is changing its versioning - the next one will be GNOME 40 05:43:27 Kalev: 40~beta would be better than 40.beta; has discussed this with ebassi but he's not biting. Anticipates that all the major distros will be using ~. Is concerned that some packages might get the conversion from . to ~ wrong. - would be easier to deal with than . - dots can't be automatically converted to ~. 05:43:29 Matthias: it should be possible to automatically translate dots to tildas - can help with that. 05:43:31 Kalev: the problem is that the dot carries meaning - it looks like a version but it isn't. Distros agree that dots aren't a good idea. 05:43:33 Tomas: we didn't get the Firefox beta blocker, so we're releasing beta with an outdated Firefox. Disappointed by this - will be proposing additional criteria for F34. 05:43:35 #topic Remove nautilus-sendto from default install #185 05:43:37 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/185 05:43:39 Kalev: it's retired in rawhide and it's deprecated upstream 05:43:41 #agreed No objections - we'll remove it 05:43:43 #topic Enable low-memory-monitor.service #190 05:43:45 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/190 05:43:47 Kalev: it's already included in F32, but it's disabled, so enabling it won't turn it on for upgrades. Services should be enabled when they're included. 05:43:49 Neal: it is possible to enable services on upgrade; we're just stuck on agreeing which approach should be used. 05:43:51 Owen: it's part of the system definition, so we should do whatever it takes to turn it on. 05:43:53 Michael: it competes with part of earlyoom; we don't want it to be redundant with systemd-oomd 05:43:55 #info This is targeting F34 05:43:57 #agreed Deferred for one week - let's ask these questions in the ticket 05:43:59 #topic Enable power-profiles-daemon by default #191 05:44:01 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/191 05:44:03 Owen: this is a F34 / GNOME 40 request. Changes are targeting rawhide. 05:44:05 #topic Make use of malcontent in the default install? #186 05:44:07 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/186 05:44:09 Neal: it's a headline GNOME 3.38 feature so it would be weird not to include it 05:44:11 Allan: has tested the app and doesn't think it's ready - every user gets a prominent Parental Controls app which is currently confusing 05:44:13 Unclear what the options are - can we make it available without exposing every user to the Parental Controls app. Owen: it would be good to investigate what our options are. 05:44:15 Kalev: parental controls are a compile-time option in gnome-control-center 05:44:17 Neal: can we build the app but not initial setup and control center with parental controls enabled? Allan: if we try this, we should test the app to make sure that it makes sense without the other bits enabled. 05:44:19 #agreed Let's not build the integrations and see if we can build the app but not include it by default. 05:44:21 #topic Make a small core of packages non-removable with DNF #165 05:44:23 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/165 05:44:25 We previously approved the uncontroversial items from the issue. The controversial ones remain: gnome-software, gnome-terminal, yelp. 05:44:27 Allan: motivation for these changes: 05:44:29 - yelp - a lot of apps link to the docs, so if yelp is missing we could get a lot of broken links 05:44:31 - gnome-software - software updates and notifications for critical system functions 05:44:33 - gnome-terminal & gnome-software - if you dnf remove them both, you could be left with no way to add a terminal back (without going to a tty) 05:44:35 Owen: if you are removing yelp and software you're in the realm of customization; we want a way for people to customize workstation 05:44:37 Matthias & Neal: agree that software should be non-removable, but unfortunately it has issues 05:44:39 Matthias: doesn't see the rationale for making yelp non-removable 05:44:41 Michael: thinks no, we should let users break their systems if they want to 05:44:43 Kalev: it shouldn't be possible to remove gnome-software from gnome-software, but it should be possible to remove it through dnf 05:44:45 #agreed yelp, gnome-software and gnome-terminal should be removable through dnf 05:44:47 #topic GNOME Software is recommending proprietary software #111 05:44:49 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/111 05:44:51 #agree Deferred 05:44:53 #topic Open floor 05:44:55 #info https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2476 - systemd-resolved by default should be deferred to a future release 05:45:01 #endmeeting