15:35:31 #startmeeting Workstation WG (2021-06-15) 15:35:31 Meeting started Fri Jun 18 15:35:31 2021 UTC. 15:35:31 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 15:35:31 The chair is cmurf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:35:31 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:35:31 The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg_(2021-06-15)' 15:35:33 #meetingname workstation 15:35:33 The meeting name has been set to 'workstation' 15:35:35 #chair Neal 15:35:35 Current chairs: Neal cmurf 15:35:49 #topic Rollcall 15:35:51 #info present: Owen, Michael (secr.), Allan, Jens, Matthias, Chris, Langdon, Neal ,Tomas 15:35:53 #info regrets: Kalev 15:35:55 #info present guests: 15:35:57 #topic Approval of June 8 minutes 15:35:59 https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/workstation/workstation.2021-06-11-17.07.log.html 15:36:01 #agreed no objections 15:36:03 #topic Announcements, follow-ups, status reports 15:36:05 WG discusses conference sponsorships 15:36:07 #topic encryption of user data (excludes system) 15:36:09 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/82 15:36:11 Chris: btrfs fscrypt works and has reached feature parity with ext4 fscrypt, but important btrfs features are not yet supported, and the work is not yet merged upstream. 15:36:13 Chris: Do we want to use systemd-homed, or roll a different solution? 15:36:15 Neal: Users should be able to upgrade to an encrypted system without reinstalling. Michael says that might be too much to expect. 15:36:17 Neal: Discusses how System76 handles encrypted OEM installs. Anaconda cannot do this. 15:36:19 Allan: Would be nice to have a user-guided upgrade process to enable the new encryption feature. But we are not very good at testing features that run only once when upgrading from one release to another. 15:36:21 Neal: Not sure how we would implement such a feature. (Could it use LEAPP?) 15:36:23 Chris: Discusses systemd-homed. Copying files from original unencrypted filesystem to new filesystem would be awkward. Do we upgrade all users, or only new users? Using btrfs fscrypt would be simpler and lower-risk since it reuses existing compression codepaths that handle this on-the-fly. 15:36:25 Crickets. Chirp chirp. 15:36:27 Chris: fscrypt might be a better default than systemd-homed LUKS since it avoids space consumption and "file system on top of a file system" complexities. 15:36:29 Neal: Suggests having useradd create a new btrfs subvolume for each new user account. This could be useful to enable fscrypt in the future. 15:36:31 Matthias: Cautions against relying on code that hasn't yet landed in the kernel. Should keep in touch with Lennart regarding systemd-homed. 15:36:33 Chris: should also keep in touch with halfline regarding gdm and accountsservice support for systemd-homedir. 15:36:35 Neal: should try to get Omar into the same meeting with Lennart to discuss both approaches. 15:36:37 Chris: fscrypt on systemd-homed might be a good default, with LUKS on systemd-homed as an alternative for users who require additional security. 15:36:39 Neal: systemd-homed requires that user home directories use separate subvolumes. fscrypt on its own does not (can encrypt different home directories with different keys). 15:36:41 #info systemd-homed makes it easier to support no encryption, and multiple encryption schemes (ext4/fscrypt, btrfs/fscrypt, LUKS); 15:36:43 #info but homed is a fundamentally different login/user authentication scheme, so we need to evaluate that independently from encryption schemes. 15:36:45 #action Neal to create a ticket for considering btrfs subvolumes for different users. 15:36:47 #action Matthias to invite Lennart to future WG meeting to discuss systemd-homed. 15:36:49 Neal: Wonders how systemd-homed plus enterprise login would work. 15:36:51 Chris: systemd-homed needs to handle user password changes *without* requiring reencrypting all files. This is probably a blocker. 15:36:53 Chris: There is a Google tool called 'fscrypt' which is a key manager and interface for setting up native file system encryption on ext4, f2fs, ubifs and will support Btrfs. This tool also provides PAM integration, 15:36:55 Chris: and it also provides for user password changes without requiring reencryption of files. 15:36:57 #link https://github.com/google/fscrypt 15:36:59 #topic Open Floor 15:37:01 Michael asks about Fedora move to Matrix. Neal says it is held up on legal. 15:37:26 #endmeeting