20:58:27 <brainycmurf> #startmeeting Workstation WG (2023-11-14)
20:58:27 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Nov 14 20:58:27 2023 UTC.
20:58:27 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
20:58:27 <zodbot> The chair is brainycmurf. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
20:58:27 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:58:27 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg_(2023-11-14)'
20:58:27 <brainycmurf> #meetingname workstation
20:58:27 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation'
20:58:28 <brainycmurf> #chair Michael
20:58:28 <zodbot> Current chairs: Michael brainycmurf
20:58:28 <brainycmurf> #info Present members: Michael, Kalev, Jens, Owen, Matthias, Allan, Chris
20:58:28 <brainycmurf> #info Guests:
20:58:28 <brainycmurf> #info Regrets: Neal
20:58:30 <brainycmurf> #info Missing: Tomas
20:58:32 <brainycmurf> #info Secretary: Chris
20:58:34 <brainycmurf> Michael: some aspirational and older tickets have been closed, feel free to reopen
20:58:38 <brainycmurf> #topic Ship preininstalled apps as Flatpaks
20:58:40 <brainycmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/269
20:58:42 <brainycmurf> Owen: have been working on Fedora's flatpak infra, though that doesn't directly affect this issue. Still working on ironing out some bugs related to Firefox flatpak. Tomas knows more about that. Most recent focus has been how we pre-install things, Anaconda, and rpm based Fedora variants. Progress is slow but steady, is a priority.
20:58:46 <brainycmurf> Kalev: some issues with flatpaks themselves e.g. open h264 support, but that should be on track. Ability to debug flatpaks is important, and needs further investigation.
20:58:49 <brainycmurf> Owen: possibly most plausible way is debuginfod, some of that work stalled so we just need to circle back on that.
20:58:52 <brainycmurf> Kalev: question is partial or full replacement of apps.
20:58:54 <brainycmurf> Owen: one behavior change we get is, it currently decouples the app versions from the OS release version. So e.g. Fedora n will start to get the updated flatpaks from Fedora n+1 upon release.
20:58:57 <brainycmurf> Allan, Kalev - familiar behavior, mobile devices do this, Silverblue Kinoite do this.
20:58:59 <brainycmurf> Kalev: we're currently missing a testing stream for Flatpaks.
20:59:01 <brainycmurf> Owen and Kalev discuss current limitations in Bodhi for how things would function during prerelease without a test stream and if a test stream is the way to go to
20:59:04 <brainycmurf> Owen: examples of apps that would probably not be flatpaks, things that interoperate with Shell such as Files, certain apps are tied to core desktop.
20:59:09 <brainycmurf> Allan: what would be the process of changing a core application, full substitution?
20:59:11 <brainycmurf> Owen: declare in a config file what apps should be pre-installed, when upgrading to the next version of Fedora, remove flatpak a and install flatpak b.
20:59:14 <brainycmurf> #info good progress being made with flatpaks, toward distributing a bulk of Fedora apps as flatpaks including the apps that show up on media (pre-installed);
20:59:17 <brainycmurf> #action owen to update the ticket
20:59:19 <brainycmurf> #topic Improve the quality of the desktop wallpapers & ensure they're maintained
20:59:21 <brainycmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/293
20:59:23 <brainycmurf> In the most recent cycle there was a breakdown in the normal process of desktop wallpaper development process. Jacob jumped in and got us a wallpaper but this process wise this shouldn't become the new normal.
20:59:26 <brainycmurf> #action Allan will talk to Maxine and go from there
20:59:28 <brainycmurf> #topic Software changelogs should not use markup or markdown
20:59:30 <brainycmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/326
20:59:32 <brainycmurf> most recent problem in 1.5 year old ticket, bodhi supports markdown hyperlinks but appstream does not. It's not terrible, we could accept status quo, could enhance appstream spec to support hyperlinks, could ask koji devs to match appstream spec, could strip/convert hyperlinks to some more readable form.
20:59:38 <brainycmurf> Kalev thinks it's a Software bug, it should somehow handle this better
20:59:40 <brainycmurf> Michael: the markup problem is fixed by Milan, the markdown problem remains; proposal, report upstream bugs for this and close our issue.
20:59:43 <brainycmurf> #action Michael and Kalev will discuss and file the one or more Software bugs, possibly an appstream bug to add hyperlinks to the spec, and then close this issue.
20:59:46 <brainycmurf> #topic low-memory-monitor is archived
20:59:48 <brainycmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/392
20:59:50 <brainycmurf> This is a system daemon that detects memory pressure, emits dbus signal that tells apps to release caches. Daemon was archived a little while ago. What to replace it with? Proposal in glib to implement the gmemory monitor in systemd, functionality is a bit different. Our job to figure out what to do with just low-memory-monitor since it's installed by default. Options: remove it, keep it.
20:59:55 <brainycmurf> Allan: how many apps are affected?
20:59:57 <brainycmurf> Michael does a search, looks like about a dozen.
20:59:59 <brainycmurf> Allan: we should keep it working until there's an alternative
21:00:01 <brainycmurf> Michael: deferred until next week
21:00:03 <brainycmurf> #info overview of problem, seems like we need to keep it working until there's an alternative
21:00:07 <brainycmurf> #topic power-profiles-daemon is archived
21:00:09 <brainycmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/393
21:00:11 <brainycmurf> Deferred to next week
21:00:13 <brainycmurf> #topic Evaluate our X11 session offering
21:00:15 <brainycmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/395
21:00:17 <brainycmurf> Deferred to next week
21:00:19 <brainycmurf> #topic Announcements and status updates
21:00:21 <brainycmurf> Allan: STF grant, homed integration is being worked on. Michael will create a ticket for tracking and discuss next week.
21:00:24 <brainycmurf> Minutes from last week:
21:00:26 <brainycmurf> #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2023-11-10/workstation.2023-11-10-04.57.log.html
21:00:29 <brainycmurf> #endmeeting