18:56:45 <brainycmurf> #startmeeting Workstation WG (2024-04-16) 18:56:45 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Apr 16 18:56:45 2024 UTC. 18:56:45 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 18:56:45 <zodbot> The chair is brainycmurf. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions. 18:56:45 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:56:45 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg_(2024-04-16)' 18:56:45 <brainycmurf> #meetingname workstation 18:56:45 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation' 18:56:45 <brainycmurf> #chair Michael 18:56:45 <zodbot> Current chairs: Michael brainycmurf 18:56:45 <brainycmurf> #info Present members: Michael, Allan, Kalev, Tomas Popela, Matthias, Chris, Neal, Jens 18:56:45 <brainycmurf> #info Guests: Troy Dawson, Joshua Strobl, Marc Deop, Steve Cossette, Jan Grulich, Timothée Ravier, Alessandro Astone 18:56:46 <brainycmurf> #info Regrets: 18:56:48 <brainycmurf> #info Missing: 18:56:50 <brainycmurf> #info Secretary: Allan 18:56:52 <brainycmurf> Agenda 18:56:54 <brainycmurf> #topic Blocker bug review (if necessary) 18:56:56 <brainycmurf> #info There is a f40-backgrounds blocker bug proposed. It is unlikely to become a blocker bug. 18:56:58 <brainycmurf> #topic Appoint chair for F41 release cycle 18:57:00 <brainycmurf> #agreed Deferred to the next meeting. 18:57:02 <brainycmurf> #topic [Proposal] Replace GNOME with KDE in Fedora Workstation 18:57:04 <brainycmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/425 18:57:06 <brainycmurf> Troy: the proposal isn't actually to replace GNOME with KDE. The KDE SIG feels that it is in a position to be an edition on the front page with GNOME and the 5 other editions. But asking the question anyway: would we change workstation to KDE? [Quick poll says no.] What would be a good way for KDE to become an edition? 18:57:10 <brainycmurf> Marc: The intention isn't necessarily to become an edition, but to get more relevance - maybe changing the approach that Fedora takes where the path to getting more relevance is to become an edition. 18:57:15 <brainycmurf> Neal: The way to get more resources and support in Fedora is to become an edition. Doesn't necessarily want KDE to become the sole desktop edition or for Workstation to have to rebrand, but does want to change the current situation. 18:57:19 <brainycmurf> Kalev: users expect workstation to be GNOME. Doesn't think it makes sense for the KDE SIG to be talking to Workstation Working group. Thinks that it would be better to talk to the Fedora Council. 18:57:22 <brainycmurf> Matthias: would be OK with KDE becoming an edition 18:57:24 <brainycmurf> Allan: doesn't feel that this meeting is a great place to have this conversation - we don't have access to previous conversations or knowledge of Fedora's strategic direction. Nor do we know what al the effects of the decision might be, nor do we in terms <to summarise afterwards> docs, testing, marketing, 18:57:28 <brainycmurf> Troy: feels that Fedora KDE does meet the definition of an edition. Agrees that we probably do need 18:57:31 <brainycmurf> Tomas: worried that few years from now a new desktop environment will come gain popularity and user base, will get the blocking status will be promoted in the same way as KDE is trying now and we will basically return back into the era before Fedora 21 (not sure about the release) when we had products/editions fighting with each other with no leader set. 18:57:36 <brainycmurf> Neal: That would be a good problem to have. If we are producing variants that are so popular that get energy, support, and engagement like that, it should be worth having a conversation about supporting them. 18:57:39 <brainycmurf> Joshua: yes there's a lot of docs for workstation which relate to GNOME. But could other desktops be addressed in a way that doesn't cause confusion. Figuring out a way to present the editions side by side would be good thing to do. In the Fedora discussion related the Change Proposal, users had expressed that they had impressions that Plasma was not to the same quality as Workstation, due to it being less promoted. 18:57:46 <brainycmurf> Side-by-side could address it or play a part in it. 18:57:48 <brainycmurf> Allan: historically we've treated GNOME as an implementation detail of the Fedora Workstation - in order to make Fedora attractive to new Linux users - reducing the number of concepts they have to familiarise themselves with and understand. 18:57:52 <brainycmurf> Kalev: we could have Fedora Workstation and Fedora KDE Edition side by side. It would be confusing to have two generic names. 18:57:55 <brainycmurf> Neal: [noted in chat and minutes] These statements are incongruent: it appears that GNOME is not an implementation detail of Workstation. I would suggest changing Workstation to "Fedora GNOME Workstation" then if we're talking about desktop environment-defined editions, so that "Fedora GNOME Workstation Edition" and "Fedora KDE Plasma Desktop Edition" are clearly denoted. 18:58:00 <brainycmurf> Michael: doesn't think we are going to come to any firmer conclusion today. Fedora Council is a good next step. It's useful for Fedora to have a "default" offering. But we can probably promote Fedora KDE more than we do now, without undermining Workstation. 18:58:04 <brainycmurf> Marc: thinks that there should be a process to change the desktop and that council should justify why GNOME is used in Workstation. 18:58:07 <brainycmurf> Neal: we shouldn't be choosing something on the basis that it's always the way we've done things in the past. Wants there to be a justification for Workstation being an Edition and what makes Workstation worthy of being the default? 18:58:11 <brainycmurf> Joshua: wants a concrete answer to the question of what the working group's position is how the process should proceed. Do we want to be involved? Do we want to hand it over to Council competely? Should the KDE SIG handle it on their own? 18:58:17 <brainycmurf> Allan: we will need to discuss that in future meeting in Workstation Working Group and get back to the KDE SIG (?) 18:58:20 <brainycmurf> #topic Issue report review 18:58:22 <brainycmurf> #agreed Deferred 18:58:24 <brainycmurf> #topic Announcements and status updates 18:58:26 <brainycmurf> Allan has reviewed the "What's new in Fedora Workstation 40" Fedora Magazine article today. It needs work. 18:58:29 <brainycmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-newsroom/issue/265#comment-905665 18:58:31 <brainycmurf> Expected F40 release date is 23 April 18:58:33 <brainycmurf> Nieves and David are in workstation Matrix channel now, so can be asked packaging questions 18:58:35 <brainycmurf> Nieves is looking at using pakit for Fedora, and is looking into packaging Pyxis 18:58:37 <brainycmurf> #topic Minutes from last week 18:58:39 <brainycmurf> #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2024-04-03/workstation.2024-04-03-02.32.log.html 18:58:42 <brainycmurf> #endmeeting