15:47:51 <brainycmurf> #startmeeting Workstation WG (2025-04-01)
15:47:51 <zodbot_> Meeting started Tue Apr  1 15:47:51 2025 UTC.
15:47:51 <zodbot_> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:47:51 <zodbot_> The chair is brainycmurf. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
15:47:51 <zodbot_> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:47:51 <zodbot_> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg_(2025-04-01)'
15:47:51 <brainycmurf> #meetingname workstation
15:47:51 <zodbot_> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation'
15:47:51 <brainycmurf> #chair Matthias
15:47:51 <zodbot_> Current chairs: Matthias brainycmurf
15:47:51 <brainycmurf> #info Present members:  Matthias, Michael, Michel, Neal, Chris, Nieves, Jens
15:47:51 <brainycmurf> #info Guests: Adam Williamson, Lee Thomas Stephen, Felipe Borges
15:47:52 <brainycmurf> #info Regrets:
15:47:54 <brainycmurf> #info Missing: Allan, Tomas
15:47:56 <brainycmurf> #info Secretary:  Michel
15:47:58 <brainycmurf> #topic Chat with Fedora QA
15:48:02 <brainycmurf> - how the freeze process works
15:48:04 <brainycmurf> - compose tests
15:48:06 <brainycmurf> quite involved, can test login, reboot, "no notifications" / expected notifications, even fingerprint reading, printing etc
15:48:09 <brainycmurf> a subset run for updates, more can probably be enabled
15:48:11 <brainycmurf> Q from Matthias: Rawhide no longer wild west?
15:48:13 <brainycmurf> Adam: yes - there are gating tests since ~ 2 years ago, you do need to update packages together just like in stable releases if they have dependencies
15:48:16 <brainycmurf> Adam: GNOME upstream hoping to add more openQA tests, will catch problems earlier
15:48:18 <brainycmurf> Michael: does not have much resource right now (one person in volunteer time)
15:48:20 <brainycmurf> Adam hoping to make it easier to add tests to OpenQA
15:48:22 <brainycmurf> #topic Blocker bug review F42
15:48:24 <brainycmurf> #info One issue regarding shutdown where systemd behavior changed and an a11y-related mutter crash
15:48:27 <brainycmurf> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2355033 -> freeze exception, split vote for blocker
15:48:32 <brainycmurf> problem esp worse with applications that GNOME does not know about, in which case the shutdown just never happens (old behavior of that app being ignored is also not great)
15:48:35 <brainycmurf> #info BUG, GNOME crashes on startup if keyboard accessibility features are enabled
15:48:37 <brainycmurf> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2354592
15:48:39 <brainycmurf> #info propose blocker, Can't open settings to adjust Bugzilla apikey
15:48:41 <brainycmurf> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2356257
15:48:43 <brainycmurf> new one: gnome-abrt redesigned, no way to change API key (expires after a year, one shot entry)
15:48:45 <brainycmurf> #topic Status of GNOME 48 update
15:48:47 <brainycmurf> #info stuck updates
15:48:49 <brainycmurf> #link https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2025-46eef33a40
15:48:51 <brainycmurf> #link https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2025-e138608769
15:48:53 <brainycmurf> #info mega update
15:48:55 <brainycmurf> #link https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2025-6a35898dbf
15:48:57 <brainycmurf> Michael: not all updates can dribble in individually, e.g. gnome-shell and schemas need to be bundled
15:49:02 <brainycmurf> GNOME Shell 48.0 final is missing from 43 and 42
15:49:04 <brainycmurf> => fails test. waiting for fixed mutter
15:49:06 <brainycmurf> can add to the stuck updates
15:49:08 <brainycmurf> gnome-kiosk is critical (needed by live installer)
15:49:10 <brainycmurf> #topic WG chair for the next cycle
15:49:12 <brainycmurf> no volunteer
15:49:14 <brainycmurf> #topic A position paper on Flatpaks
15:49:16 <brainycmurf> #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eDrfYBM5EV6DZIFoJQZPbrDF9hwudTK3Z1ntYZmxhJQ/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.2fqdoiev0d85
15:49:19 <brainycmurf> Voting
15:49:21 <brainycmurf> sticking points from Chris
15:49:23 <brainycmurf> - the claim that Flatpak is superior for desktop apps
15:49:25 <brainycmurf> - "GNOME Software to focus on being an application installer"
15:49:27 <brainycmurf> Matthias: point 1 - sandboxing, separate runtimes
15:49:29 <brainycmurf> Michel: user installable without sudo is a benefit too
15:49:33 <brainycmurf> Michael: maybe just delete the high-level goals if they are controversial
15:49:35 <brainycmurf> Chris / Neal: document is still aspirational, can't be behind it fully but not objecting anymore
15:49:37 <brainycmurf> Neal: the sandboxing is the interesting part, the software delivery experience is not great
15:49:39 <brainycmurf> vote on document, sans the high-level goal section
15:49:41 <brainycmurf> +1
15:49:43 <brainycmurf> Matthias, Michel, Michael, Neal, Chris, Nieves
15:49:45 <brainycmurf> (Jens dropped off)
15:49:47 <brainycmurf> #agreed Flatpak position paper approved, without the high-level goals (+6, +0, -0)
15:49:49 <brainycmurf> #topic Announcements, follow-ups, status reports
15:49:51 <brainycmurf> Neal: We haven't scheduled the test day - should have brought it up when Adam was here
15:49:53 <brainycmurf> #topic Open Floor
15:49:55 <brainycmurf> #topic Minutes from previous meeting
15:49:57 <brainycmurf> #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2025-03-18/workstation.2025-03-18-23.11.html
15:50:00 <brainycmurf> #endmeeting