21:00:29 <tdawson> #startmeeting EPEL (2020-06-26)
21:00:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Jun 26 21:00:29 2020 UTC.
21:00:29 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
21:00:29 <zodbot> The chair is tdawson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:00:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
21:00:29 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel_(2020-06-26)'
21:00:30 <tdawson> #meetingname epel
21:00:30 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel'
21:00:32 <tdawson> #chair nirik tdawson bstinson Evolution pgreco carlwgeorge
21:00:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: Evolution bstinson carlwgeorge nirik pgreco tdawson
21:00:33 <tdawson> #topic aloha
21:00:50 <pgreco> oh, it's time, hi!
21:00:57 <tdawson> Hi pgreco
21:01:16 <smooge> hello
21:01:18 <nb> .hello2
21:01:19 <zodbot> nb: nb 'Nick Bebout' <nick@bebout.net>
21:01:26 <tdawson> Hi smooge
21:01:32 <tdawson> Hi nb
21:02:01 <nb> hello
21:03:26 <tdawson> I'll give it a couple more minutes to see if we get more people show up
21:03:56 <nirik> morning
21:04:02 <tdawson> Hi nirik
21:04:23 <tdawson> I have a suspision that it isn't morning where you are
21:04:30 <tdawson> But I guess it's morning somewhere.
21:04:47 <nirik> it's always morning when the meeting starts. ;)
21:05:31 <tdawson> #topic Old Business
21:05:33 <tdawson> #info EPEL-6 is End of Life in 2020-11. It will be moved to archives in 2020-12
21:05:34 <tdawson> #info THIS IS NOT A DRILL.
21:06:03 <nirik> coming up fast...
21:06:15 <tdawson> I don't think any of last weeks business needs to be re-talked about.
21:06:44 <tdawson> It is ... less than 5 months
21:07:08 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-7
21:07:53 <tdawson> I don't have anything for EPEL7 ... does anyone else?
21:08:32 <nirik> nope
21:08:37 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-8
21:08:48 <tdawson> #info Proposal to update Guidelines and Policies about module names and stream names
21:08:50 <tdawson> .epel 104
21:08:51 <zodbot> tdawson: Issue #104: Update module policy concerning same modules as RHEL - epel - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/epel/issue/104
21:09:54 <tdawson> I know this only started this morning, but I'm assuming everyone's heard about it in some form.
21:10:17 <nirik> I skimmed it, not sure I am willing to approve it yet...
21:10:22 <smooge> I for one completely misunderstood the problem when I saw it this morning :)
21:10:30 <nirik> I'm wondering how this looks to a user...
21:11:03 <nirik> if you dnf enable foobar/baz (in rhel) and then later see foobar/zing (in epel) and switch to it, is it clear it's from epel and not rhel?
21:11:17 <nirik> I guess you can see in module info.
21:11:31 <tdawson> https://paste.centos.org/view/7317fd36
21:11:52 <tdawson> nirik: That is what RHEL users are seeing right now.
21:11:58 <smooge> so the issue is that currently if you get nodejs:10 you automatically get both RHEL and EPEL enabled and then our packages update the shipped ones
21:12:22 <nirik> yeah, I know that...
21:12:38 <tdawson> to be honest, this is the worst case scenario ... but it certainly highlights the problem.
21:13:01 <smooge> I don't know if I will call it the worst case scenario. I am expecting we will find worse ones
21:13:02 <nirik> I know we need to remove those, I was just talking about epel naming the module the same but with a different stream
21:13:31 <nirik> I suppose it would also show it's form epel on update/install.
21:13:44 <smooge> so I thought tdawson's rule was that all epel streams will have the name in it?
21:14:07 <smooge> so it would be nodejs:10-epel or foobar/zing-epel
21:14:20 <tdawson> smooge: It wasn't what we ended up agreeing on.   But ya, that's what I wanted.
21:14:22 <smooge> repotags
21:15:06 <smooge> sorry I haven't seen the updates since you talked this morning so I was going off that
21:15:28 <pgreco> sorry, work is messing with meeting time...
21:15:38 <tdawson> Oh, here's the output of listing the modules - https://paste.centos.org/view/bb960f1b
21:16:11 <pgreco> tdawson: I'm ok with the rephrase from your mail today
21:16:58 <tdawson> So, having the repotag, or something in the stream (ie. 10-epel) prevents some module builders from having a generic name across all releases.
21:17:28 <nirik> I like the epel name in the stream...
21:19:47 <smooge> honestly I think that we could also go with name-{repo} anyway for all streams no matter where
21:20:10 <nirik> well, we have no control over what rhel does. ;)
21:20:33 <smooge> yeah understood
21:20:52 <tdawson> Looking at the modules, it looks like rhel has two standards as well
21:20:56 <smooge> the problem is that using a generic name across all releases is going to hurt
21:21:08 <tdawson> Some, that are default, have a stream of rhel8, while others have a number.
21:22:09 <nirik> standards are great! everyone should have one!
21:22:25 <smooge> two
21:22:42 <tdawson> So, it's sounding like we don't have a consensus on what the stream name's should be, but what about an agreement that they shouldn't be the same as whatever is in RHEL's?
21:23:31 <pgreco> looks like it
21:23:54 <nirik> yeah.
21:23:56 <smooge> well who in this meeting doesn't want -epel in the name?
21:24:28 <pgreco> I don't think the problem is that we don't want it, I think the problem is that we can't without hurting fedora
21:24:35 <nirik> IMHO we should mail the list and see if anyone has other ideas and vote on this next week? unless there's a rush? I'm fine approving the removal of those overlapping ones in the mean time
21:24:58 <tdawson> If I'm a module maintainer, I really want to just have [] in there, and just do one module build for all releases.
21:25:24 <tdawson> If we could get it to automatically add -epel to the stream name, I think that would be great
21:25:43 <smooge> if I was a repository owner, I would like mbs to be able to add such flags for me
21:25:56 <nirik> no idea who would do that work...
21:25:59 * nirik calls not it.
21:26:04 <smooge> damn it
21:26:38 * tdawson doesn't have permissions.
21:28:11 <tdawson> Sorry for the long pauses, I'm wondering where to move forward with this.
21:28:54 <nirik> well, mbs does have a upstream (the koji team) we could try and ask them if they could put it on their radar...
21:29:21 <tdawson> nirik: smooge: Do either of you know how long it will take to remove the modules in question?  https://pagure.io/releng/issue/9554
21:29:39 <tdawson> nirik: That sounds like a plan.
21:29:40 <nirik> not sure.
21:30:06 <nirik> ideally we can just untag them in koji and the next compose drops them... but I am not sure if modules work that way.
21:31:04 <tdawson> Does anyone want to step forward for contacting the koji team about putting -epel8 in the stream names?
21:31:54 * tdawson stands there as everone takes one step back.
21:32:45 <tdawson> #info tdawson will contact the mbs upstream team (the koji team) about getting them to put -epel (or -epel8) automatically on the stream names.
21:33:01 <nirik> +1
21:33:12 <pgreco> +1
21:33:42 <tdawson> We can table the proposal for now, and bring it up next week, with what we find.
21:34:10 <tdawson> Because if they can do that, then the extra wording isn't needed.
21:34:34 <pgreco> yeap, unless rhel decides to name their modules -epel ;)
21:34:41 <tdawson> *laughs*
21:35:22 <tdawson> OK, any other RHEL8 things?
21:35:48 <nirik> it's my new distro... Extra Posh Envigorating Linux...
21:36:35 <tdawson> *laughs*  Oh man ... why didn't I pick that name when I was creating my last distro.
21:37:08 <tdawson> I would like your finest distro please ... Extra Posh
21:37:54 <tdawson> Well ... moving on
21:37:56 <nirik> ✅
21:38:18 <tdawson> #topic General Issues / Open Floor
21:38:58 <tdawson> I want to thank nirik smooge and your team for the work on the datacenter move.
21:39:46 <nirik> thanks. it's been a journey, but overall I think it went pretty well. Many kudos to smooge on it...
21:40:55 <nb> yes, nirik++ smooge++
21:41:02 <nb> but i think i already gave you both cookies
21:41:02 <pgreco> nirik++
21:41:02 <zodbot> pgreco: Karma for kevin changed to 25 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
21:41:06 <pgreco> smooge++
21:41:06 <zodbot> pgreco: Karma for smooge changed to 20 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
21:42:01 <tdawson> I know it isn't over yet, but from the reports, it looks like the touchiest stuff is behind us.
21:42:31 <nirik> yeah, now is just the rebuilding/readding things... will take a while, but hopefully less stressfull.
21:43:35 <tdawson> Anything else while we are on open floor?
21:44:22 <tdawson> Oh, I just remembered, next Friday is a holiday in the U.S., and I wasn't planning on being here then.
21:44:28 * nirik has nothing.
21:44:39 <tdawson> Do we want to skip the meeting next week, or would someone else want to run the meeting?
21:44:45 <nirik> try and vote in ticket on that proposal?
21:44:56 <tdawson> nirik: I'm fine with that.
21:45:03 * nirik is hoping to have a family only social distant bbq. ;)
21:45:04 <pgreco> yeah, I'm good
21:45:13 <tdawson> I'll put my findings in the ticket.
21:45:19 <pgreco> tdawson: did you get anything with the duplicated packages?
21:45:44 <tdawson> pgreco: I'm not understanding what you mean.
21:45:56 <pgreco> the repodiff we talked last week
21:46:07 <pgreco> packages we have in epel that should be removed
21:46:31 <tdawson> pgreco: Oh ya.  I was trying to figure out where to put that.
21:47:04 <tdawson> pgreco: No ... thanks for the reminder, I'll put it again on top of my things to do.
21:47:42 <pgreco> sure
21:49:02 <tdawson> pgreco: I should have that done early in the week.  I'll send out an email.
21:49:42 <pgreco> no problem, to me it looks like 1 hour passed since last week's meeting
21:49:49 <pgreco> it is all a blur, so I'm good :)
21:49:55 <tdawson> :)
21:50:37 <tdawson> So, it sounds like we're going to skip next weeks meeting?   And do the voting in the issue once we have more information.
21:50:39 <tdawson> Correct?
21:50:44 <pgreco> +1
21:51:09 <nirik> +1
21:51:11 <tdawson> #info skpping next weeks meeting due to holidays.  Next meeting will be July 10
21:51:29 <tdawson> Then, that's all I have for today, unless anyone has anything else.
21:52:35 <pgreco> thanks everybody
21:53:13 <tdawson> Thanks for coming and participating.  I hope everyone has a good weekend, and good week.
21:53:28 <tdawson> #endmeeting