#meeting-1:fedoraproject.org log

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:00:09

!startmeeting EPEL (2024-06-05)

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

18:00:10

Meeting started at 2024-06-05 18:00:09 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

18:00:10

The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2024-06-05)'

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:00:14

!meetingname epel

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

18:00:15

The Meeting Name is now epel

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:00:19

!topic aloha

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

18:00:27

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:00:28

Pablo Sebastian Greco (pgreco)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:00:43

Hi Pablo Greco

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:00:55

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:00:57

James Richardson (jrichardson)

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:00:59

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:01:02

Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:01:02

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:01:04

Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:01:26

Hi James Richardson Carl George and Robby Callicotte

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:01:33

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:01:37

Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:01:42

g'day folks

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:01:47

morning

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:01:47

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:01:49

Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:01:50

Hi Neil Hanlon

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:01:55

Morning nirik

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:02:09

Hi Michel Lind 🎩

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:03:16

hope you feel better soon

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

18:03:29

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:03:30

Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:03:38

Hi Diego Herrera

<@davide:cavalca.name>

18:03:44

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:04:12

Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:04:21

Hi Davide Cavalca

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:10

!topic End Of Life (EOL)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:16

https://endoflife.date/centos-stream

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:16

RHEL 7 / epel-7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:16

https://endoflife.date/rhel

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:16

CentOS Stream 9 / epel-9-next goes EOL in 2027-05-31

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:16

CentOS Stream 8 / epel-8-next went EOL on 2024-05-31

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:53

I think the epel8-next EOL went smoothly

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:06:01

Did we get everything done we expected to?

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:06:14

hello

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:06:21

Hello Stephen J Smoogen

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

18:06:24

aside from some messages about people asking if the repos were down for c8s 🤦‍♂️

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

18:06:39

I've seen a couple of those

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:06:49

Oh, I much have missed them.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:07:13

still some stuff in progress

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:07:13

Theres more cleanup to do, but thats fine

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:07:15

I saw plent of CentOS Stream 8 going away, but not epel8-next.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:07:28

Oh, I must have missed them.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:07:43

https://hackmd.io/@carlwgeorge/B1DNgrSV0

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:07:56

i sent out the retirement email

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:08:24

and sent a pr to stop syncing c8s on batcave https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/pull-request/2054

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:08:44

here is the overall releng issue tracking the clean up https://pagure.io/releng/issue/12147

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

18:08:48

Troy Dawson: yeah I meant the c8s ones

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:08:50

probibly should s/stg//g there... ;)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:10:25

Anything that we need to bring up here?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:11:30

nah i think we can move on, just if anyone wants to help that's where the work is being tracked

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:11:38

Sounds good.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:11:43

!topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:11:48

https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:12:12

Lets to the quick one first

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:12:23

https://pagure.io/epel/issue/277

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:13:12

We've only got 3 votes from committee members, and this vote is a committee member only vote.

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

18:13:23

check again ;)

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:13:34

+1 for Troy

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:13:44

Ha ... it helps if I refresh my page. :)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:13:55

OK, looks like that is done.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:14:17

!agreed Troy is voted to be Committee chair for another year.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:14:35

OK, moving on to the other issue.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:14:52

https://pagure.io/epel/issue/278

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:15:16

i brought this one up in the office hours call, but i think all of the info is self-contained there in the issue

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

18:16:15

Carl George: that one seems mostly beneficial for extended support versions of RHEL, right?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:16:18

tldr; since mirrormanager returns archive mirrors for eol epel major versions, i think we should do the same for epel minor versions. this will be for epel8/epel0, and it will be a great test run for what we're doing in epel10.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:16:19

It only went up a little bit before this meeting, so we certainly wouldn't be voting on it. But is there any questions and/or explanations wanted?

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

18:16:30

people who stay longer on a specific older minor version

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:16:55

I think this is a lot of trouble, but if folks want to do the work... fine by me. ;)

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:17:02

not exclusively, it helps anyone that is pinning to an old minor version. eus is the only responsible way to do that imo, but that's another topic.

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

18:17:56

Yeah, that's what I meant, it makes sense for EUS mostly, the rest is just for their own (in)sanity

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:17:59

Yeah, it will be nice to reduce headache for people on EUS

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

18:18:18

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:18:20

Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

18:18:42

what nirik says was my next question. I'm not against it per-se, but I don't know the work cost of implementing/maintaining it

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:19:15

I can see the benefit, and am willing to work on the mirrormanager side of it... I have ~~trauma~~ experience there.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:19:21

Hi Conan Kudo

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:20:23

afaik all it should really be is modifying the scan-primary-mirror toml.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:20:41

If we don't do it presumably everyone using EUS have to do something similar in house right

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:20:44

(famous last words)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

18:21:01

things are mostly there already I think?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:21:03

In a slapdash way probably eg keeping old versions of packages only after they break

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:21:04

well, they have had to do it already

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:21:18

One thing that came up in the office hours call is documenting very clearly that the packages in the archive will get no update, even if the package maintainer wants to do an update, there is no build are for them to make one.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:21:38

one advantage of this is that the work likely could be also used for 10.x

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:21:57

The problem I see is a mismatch - since EPEL won't update this, if you are on EUS your base packages are maintained by RH but your EPEL packages are potentially full of more security holes over time

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:22:20

Ah I typed mine as Troy was typing his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:22:36

One thing that came up in the office hours call is documenting very clearly that the packages in the archive will get no updates, even if the package maintainer wants to do an update, there is no build area for them to make one.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:22:39

Yeah, I think that's what Carl was saying

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:22:44

also there's some things that should be claned up here too.. like epel-modular. https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/blob/main/f/roles/mirrormanager/backend/templates/scan-primary-mirror.toml#_18

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:22:53

so i will tell on myself here, we did start implementing this already, and then i remember that this had come up before https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/11968

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

18:22:58

well then, they can give Red Hat bags of money to maintain the packages then :P

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

18:23:23

EUS variants aren't publicly available anyway, so the community can't work with them

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

18:23:30

and I don't really want to, tbh

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:23:31

of course if the committee decides not to go this route, we won't do it for 8 and 9, and just save it for 10

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:24:49

Because this was so late being submitted, by our guidelines, we can't vote on it. But I feel like nirik. If someone wants to do it, I'm not against it.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:25:15

Oh no then the packages will get retired from epel 😅

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

18:25:34

I think the "consensus" here is that nobody is vocally against it, just concerned about implementing/maintaining

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:25:55

from the mirrormanager side, the implementation is fairly easy

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:26:23

we just create the minor version repo entities, and have the point to mirrors that have the fedora archive rsync module

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:26:54

as troy said, we can vote on it next meeting, and leave it open for comment for a week

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

18:27:07

I think the biggest reason for me to want this, is to see Stephen J Smoogen charts on usage

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:27:23

exactly

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:27:35

not my charts anymore

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:27:50

i just creep into the chats and post things every now and then

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:28:04

OK, I'm going to move on. We can discuss this for a week and vote on it next week.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:28:19

!topic Old Business

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:28:27

Does anyone have any Old Business.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:29:03

✋

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:29:20

Oh, hi Stephen J Smoogen ... do you have Old Business or are you ... umm ... go ahead.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:30:08

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:30:11

Last week, I posted numbers for high usage of EPEL-7 on mirrors and such. Amazon took notice and they made some changes which dropped the loads by 1/2

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:30:28

Wow

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:31:15

no idea what the changes were but it should help

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:31:24

that's great to hear

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:31:41

it would be nice if they could shed some light on that

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:32:05

yeah, curious... but good.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:32:14

we moved from 55 million requests per day to 27 million.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:32:35

that is all

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:33:23

Thank you for your research, and helping the load.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:33:30

Is there any other Old Business?

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:34:28

nope but i might have open floor

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:34:51

!topic General Issues / Open Floor

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:35:07

Stephen J Smoogen: sounds like you are first for open floor.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:35:44

wait nirik might have somehting

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:35:58

no, my client just decided to crash. ;)

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:36:24

basically I went trolling through various logs to get an idea if there were other 'problems' with providers and such

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:37:17

the biggest usage at MS, Google, Amazon was EL7 usage.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:37:40

the next biggest was EL8 which I can get more data via countme items..

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:37:55

the biggest OS in use for EL8 is CentOS Linux 8

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:38:10

🙃

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:38:15

Oh .... sad face.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:38:44

its actually grown a bit in the last couple of years at Google but gone down at a couple other places

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:39:41

😿

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:40:00

anyway nothing else came up in the numbers

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:40:42

oooh and someone asked me privately where the EPEL-6 packages were

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:40:44

So ... it sounds like our epel7 useage isn't going to go down much next month. (After the initial spike down)

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:41:09

no i expect EPEL-7 to be going strong as long as EPEL-6 did after it went to ELS

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:41:20

2 to 3 years

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:41:53

pity there's no system-autodeath default. :( Oh well.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:42:01

may the net lords have mercy on those poor computer souls

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:42:14

Yep

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:42:31

nirik: systemd-autodeath would have needed to have been added before 7.9 :)

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:42:47

but not too late for 10.0

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:42:50

Are there any other Open Floor items?

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:43:12

yes, it would have had to have been in place... and it's unlikely anyone would want it. So, moot I fear.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:43:49

I have nothing else.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:43:56

I have spread enough love and cheer for the week

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:44:08

Yes .... yes you have. :)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:45:16

Now that Flock presentations have been accepted or rejected, I'm sorta curious how many here are going to be able to make it to Flock.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:45:45

epel10 hackfest was accepted, but i still don't know if i'm going to make it

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

18:45:53

I'm going to be at Flock

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:45:58

i'll be there

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:45:59

I will be there

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

18:46:01

I've got a multimedia hackfest, among other things

<@davide:cavalca.name>

18:46:28

I'll be there too

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:46:40

I'll be there.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:46:41

I'll be there. Haven't checked my mail to see if my talk is in though

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:47:10

Carl George: I really hope you make it. I could give your part on epel10 for the State of EPEL, but it usually sounds better coming from you.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:47:14

I wish everyone going the best of travels and talks

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:47:36

Oh mine got in

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:48:28

it would be really nice to pitch the epel10 hackfest during the state of epel talk

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:49:00

Is there any other Open Floor items? Or are we ok ending a little early?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:50:20

Thank you all for coming, and for the very good discussions. And thank you very much for all you do for EPEL and it's community.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:50:28

Talk to you next week, if not sooner.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:50:38

!endmeeting