2024-06-05 18:00:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !startmeeting EPEL (2024-06-05)
2024-06-05 18:00:10 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-06-05 18:00:09 UTC
2024-06-05 18:00:10 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2024-06-05)'
2024-06-05 18:00:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !meetingname epel
2024-06-05 18:00:15 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now epel
2024-06-05 18:00:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic aloha
2024-06-05 18:00:27 <@pgreco:fedora.im> !hi
2024-06-05 18:00:28 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Pablo Sebastian Greco (pgreco)
2024-06-05 18:00:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Pablo Greco 
2024-06-05 18:00:55 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> !hi
2024-06-05 18:00:57 <@zodbot:fedora.im> James Richardson (jrichardson)
2024-06-05 18:00:59 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !hi
2024-06-05 18:01:02 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2024-06-05 18:01:02 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> !hi
2024-06-05 18:01:04 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
2024-06-05 18:01:26 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi James Richardson Carl George and Robby Callicotte 
2024-06-05 18:01:33 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi
2024-06-05 18:01:37 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
2024-06-05 18:01:42 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> g'day folks
2024-06-05 18:01:47 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> morning
2024-06-05 18:01:47 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2024-06-05 18:01:49 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2024-06-05 18:01:50 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Neil Hanlon 
2024-06-05 18:01:55 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Morning nirik 
2024-06-05 18:02:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Michel Lind 🎩 
2024-06-05 18:03:16 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> hope you feel better soon
2024-06-05 18:03:29 <@dherrera:fedora.im> !hi
2024-06-05 18:03:30 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his
2024-06-05 18:03:38 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Diego Herrera 
2024-06-05 18:03:44 <@davide:cavalca.name> !hi
2024-06-05 18:04:12 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
2024-06-05 18:04:21 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Davide Cavalca 
2024-06-05 18:05:10 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic End Of Life (EOL)
2024-06-05 18:05:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://endoflife.date/centos-stream
2024-06-05 18:05:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> RHEL 7 / epel-7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
2024-06-05 18:05:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://endoflife.date/rhel
2024-06-05 18:05:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> CentOS Stream 9 / epel-9-next goes EOL in 2027-05-31
2024-06-05 18:05:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> CentOS Stream 8 / epel-8-next went EOL on 2024-05-31
2024-06-05 18:05:53 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I think the epel8-next EOL went smoothly 
2024-06-05 18:06:01 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Did we get everything done we expected to?
2024-06-05 18:06:14 <@smooge:fedora.im> hello
2024-06-05 18:06:21 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hello Stephen J Smoogen 
2024-06-05 18:06:24 <@pgreco:fedora.im> aside from some messages about people asking if the repos were down for c8s 🤦‍♂️
2024-06-05 18:06:39 <@pgreco:fedora.im> I've seen a couple of those
2024-06-05 18:06:49 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh, I much have missed them.
2024-06-05 18:07:13 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> still some stuff in progress
2024-06-05 18:07:13 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Theres more cleanup to do, but thats fine
2024-06-05 18:07:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I saw plent of CentOS Stream 8 going away, but not epel8-next.
2024-06-05 18:07:28 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh, I must have missed them.
2024-06-05 18:07:43 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> https://hackmd.io/@carlwgeorge/B1DNgrSV0
2024-06-05 18:07:56 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i sent out the retirement email
2024-06-05 18:08:24 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> and sent a pr to stop syncing c8s on batcave https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/pull-request/2054
2024-06-05 18:08:44 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> here is the overall releng issue tracking the clean up https://pagure.io/releng/issue/12147
2024-06-05 18:08:48 <@pgreco:fedora.im> Troy Dawson: yeah I meant the c8s ones
2024-06-05 18:08:50 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> probibly should s/stg//g there... ;)
2024-06-05 18:10:25 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anything that we need to bring up here?
2024-06-05 18:11:30 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> nah i think we can move on, just if anyone wants to help that's where the work is being tracked
2024-06-05 18:11:38 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sounds good.
2024-06-05 18:11:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
2024-06-05 18:11:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
2024-06-05 18:12:12 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Lets to the quick one first
2024-06-05 18:12:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/epel/issue/277
2024-06-05 18:13:12 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We've only got 3 votes from committee members, and this vote is a committee member only vote.
2024-06-05 18:13:23 <@pgreco:fedora.im> check again ;)
2024-06-05 18:13:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> +1 for Troy
2024-06-05 18:13:44 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ha ... it helps if I refresh my page. :)
2024-06-05 18:13:55 <@tdawson:fedora.im> OK, looks like that is done.
2024-06-05 18:14:17 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !agreed Troy is voted to be Committee chair for another year.
2024-06-05 18:14:35 <@tdawson:fedora.im> OK, moving on to the other issue.
2024-06-05 18:14:52 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/epel/issue/278
2024-06-05 18:15:16 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i brought this one up in the office hours call, but i think all of the info is self-contained there in the issue
2024-06-05 18:16:15 <@pgreco:fedora.im> Carl George: that one seems mostly beneficial for extended support versions of RHEL, right?
2024-06-05 18:16:18 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> tldr; since mirrormanager returns archive mirrors for eol epel major versions, i think we should do the same for epel minor versions.  this will be for epel8/epel0, and it will be a great test run for what we're doing in epel10.
2024-06-05 18:16:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> It only went up a little bit before this meeting, so we certainly wouldn't be voting on it.  But is there any questions and/or explanations wanted?
2024-06-05 18:16:30 <@pgreco:fedora.im> people who stay longer on a specific older minor version
2024-06-05 18:16:55 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think this is a lot of trouble, but if folks want to do the work... fine by me. ;)
2024-06-05 18:17:02 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> not exclusively, it helps anyone that is pinning to an old minor version.  eus is the only responsible way to do that imo, but that's another topic.
2024-06-05 18:17:56 <@pgreco:fedora.im> Yeah, that's what I meant, it makes sense for EUS mostly, the rest is just for their own (in)sanity
2024-06-05 18:17:59 <@salimma:fedora.im> Yeah, it will be nice to reduce headache for people on EUS
2024-06-05 18:18:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-06-05 18:18:20 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-06-05 18:18:42 <@pgreco:fedora.im> what nirik says was my next question. I'm not against it per-se, but I don't know the work cost of implementing/maintaining it
2024-06-05 18:19:15 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> I can see the benefit, and am willing to work on the mirrormanager side of it... I have ~~trauma~~ experience there.
2024-06-05 18:19:21 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Conan Kudo 
2024-06-05 18:20:23 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> afaik all it should really be is modifying the scan-primary-mirror toml.
2024-06-05 18:20:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> If we don't do it presumably everyone using EUS have to do something similar in house right
2024-06-05 18:20:44 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> (famous last words)
2024-06-05 18:21:01 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> things are mostly there already I think?
2024-06-05 18:21:03 <@salimma:fedora.im> In a slapdash way probably eg keeping old versions of packages only after they break 
2024-06-05 18:21:04 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, they have had to do it already
2024-06-05 18:21:18 <@tdawson:fedora.im> One thing that came up in the office hours call is documenting very clearly that the packages in the archive will get no update, even if the package maintainer wants to do an update, there is no build are for them to make one.
2024-06-05 18:21:38 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> one advantage of this is that the work likely could be also used for 10.x
2024-06-05 18:21:57 <@salimma:fedora.im> The problem I see is a mismatch - since EPEL won't update this, if you are on EUS your base packages are maintained by RH but your EPEL packages are potentially full of more security holes over time
2024-06-05 18:22:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> Ah I typed mine as Troy was typing his
2024-06-05 18:22:36 <@tdawson:fedora.im> One thing that came up in the office hours call is documenting very clearly that the packages in the archive will get no updates, even if the package maintainer wants to do an update, there is no build area for them to make one.
2024-06-05 18:22:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> Yeah, I think that's what Carl was saying
2024-06-05 18:22:44 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> also there's some things that should be claned up here too.. like epel-modular. https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/blob/main/f/roles/mirrormanager/backend/templates/scan-primary-mirror.toml#_18
2024-06-05 18:22:53 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> so i will tell on myself here, we did start implementing this already, and then i remember that this had come up before  https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/11968
2024-06-05 18:22:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> well then, they can give Red Hat bags of money to maintain the packages then :P
2024-06-05 18:23:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> EUS variants aren't publicly available anyway, so the community can't work with them
2024-06-05 18:23:30 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and I don't really want to, tbh
2024-06-05 18:23:31 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> of course if the committee decides not to go this route, we won't do it for 8 and 9, and just save it for 10
2024-06-05 18:24:49 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Because this was so late being submitted, by our guidelines, we can't vote on it.  But I feel like nirik.  If someone wants to do it, I'm not against it.
2024-06-05 18:25:15 <@salimma:fedora.im> Oh no then the packages will get retired from epel 😅
2024-06-05 18:25:34 <@pgreco:fedora.im> I think the "consensus" here is that nobody is vocally against it, just concerned about implementing/maintaining
2024-06-05 18:25:55 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> from the mirrormanager side, the implementation is fairly easy
2024-06-05 18:26:23 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> we just create the minor version repo entities, and have the point to mirrors that have the fedora archive rsync module
2024-06-05 18:26:54 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> as troy said, we can vote on it next meeting, and leave it open for comment for a week
2024-06-05 18:27:07 <@pgreco:fedora.im> I think the biggest reason for me to want this, is to see Stephen J Smoogen charts on usage
2024-06-05 18:27:23 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> exactly
2024-06-05 18:27:35 <@smooge:fedora.im> not my charts anymore
2024-06-05 18:27:50 <@smooge:fedora.im> i just creep into the chats and post things every now and then
2024-06-05 18:28:04 <@tdawson:fedora.im> OK, I'm going to move on.  We can discuss this for a week and vote on it next week.
2024-06-05 18:28:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Old Business
2024-06-05 18:28:27 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Does anyone have any Old Business.
2024-06-05 18:29:03 <@smooge:fedora.im> ✋
2024-06-05 18:29:20 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh, hi Stephen J Smoogen  ... do you have Old Business or are you ... umm ... go ahead.
2024-06-05 18:30:08 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sorry, I couldn't resist.
2024-06-05 18:30:11 <@smooge:fedora.im> Last week, I posted numbers for high usage of EPEL-7 on mirrors and such. Amazon took notice and they made some changes which dropped the loads by 1/2
2024-06-05 18:30:28 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Wow
2024-06-05 18:31:15 <@smooge:fedora.im> no idea what the changes were but it should help
2024-06-05 18:31:24 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> that's great to hear
2024-06-05 18:31:41 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> it would be nice if they could shed some light on that
2024-06-05 18:32:05 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, curious... but good.
2024-06-05 18:32:14 <@smooge:fedora.im> we moved from 55 million requests per day to 27 million. 
2024-06-05 18:32:35 <@smooge:fedora.im> that is all
2024-06-05 18:33:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you for your research, and helping the load.
2024-06-05 18:33:30 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Is there any other Old Business?
2024-06-05 18:34:28 <@smooge:fedora.im> nope but i might have open floor
2024-06-05 18:34:51 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic General Issues / Open Floor
2024-06-05 18:35:07 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Stephen J Smoogen: sounds like you are first for open floor.
2024-06-05 18:35:44 <@smooge:fedora.im> wait nirik might have somehting
2024-06-05 18:35:58 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> no, my client just decided to crash. ;)
2024-06-05 18:36:24 <@smooge:fedora.im>  basically I went trolling through various logs to get an idea if there were other 'problems' with providers and such
2024-06-05 18:37:17 <@smooge:fedora.im> the biggest usage at MS, Google, Amazon was EL7 usage. 
2024-06-05 18:37:40 <@smooge:fedora.im> the next biggest was EL8 which I can get more data via countme items.. 
2024-06-05 18:37:55 <@smooge:fedora.im> the biggest OS in use for EL8 is CentOS Linux 8 
2024-06-05 18:38:10 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> 🙃
2024-06-05 18:38:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh .... sad face.
2024-06-05 18:38:44 <@smooge:fedora.im> its actually grown a bit in the last couple of years at Google but gone down at a couple other places
2024-06-05 18:39:41 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> 😿
2024-06-05 18:40:00 <@smooge:fedora.im> anyway nothing else came up in the numbers
2024-06-05 18:40:42 <@smooge:fedora.im> oooh and someone asked me privately where the EPEL-6 packages were
2024-06-05 18:40:44 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So ... it sounds like our epel7 useage isn't going to go down much next month.  (After the initial spike down)
2024-06-05 18:41:09 <@smooge:fedora.im> no i expect EPEL-7 to be going strong as long as EPEL-6 did after it went to ELS
2024-06-05 18:41:20 <@smooge:fedora.im> 2 to 3 years
2024-06-05 18:41:53 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> pity there's no system-autodeath default. :( Oh well.
2024-06-05 18:42:01 <@smooge:fedora.im> may the net lords have mercy on those poor computer souls
2024-06-05 18:42:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Yep
2024-06-05 18:42:31 <@smooge:fedora.im> nirik: systemd-autodeath would have needed to have been added before 7.9 :)
2024-06-05 18:42:47 <@smooge:fedora.im> but not too late for 10.0
2024-06-05 18:42:50 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Are there any other Open Floor items?
2024-06-05 18:43:12 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yes, it would have had to have been in place... and it's unlikely anyone would want it. So, moot I fear.
2024-06-05 18:43:49 <@smooge:fedora.im> I have nothing else.
2024-06-05 18:43:56 <@smooge:fedora.im> I have spread enough love and cheer for the week
2024-06-05 18:44:08 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Yes .... yes you have. :)
2024-06-05 18:45:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Now that Flock presentations have been accepted or rejected, I'm sorta curious how many here are going to be able to make it to Flock.
2024-06-05 18:45:45 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> epel10 hackfest was accepted, but i still don't know if i'm going to make it
2024-06-05 18:45:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm going to be at Flock
2024-06-05 18:45:58 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> i'll be there
2024-06-05 18:45:59 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> I will be there
2024-06-05 18:46:01 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I've got a multimedia hackfest, among other things
2024-06-05 18:46:28 <@davide:cavalca.name> I'll be there too
2024-06-05 18:46:40 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I'll be there.
2024-06-05 18:46:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'll be there. Haven't checked my mail to see if my talk is in though
2024-06-05 18:47:10 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Carl George: I really hope you make it.  I could give your part on epel10 for the State of EPEL, but it usually sounds better coming from you.
2024-06-05 18:47:14 <@smooge:fedora.im> I wish everyone going the best of travels and talks
2024-06-05 18:47:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> Oh mine got in 
2024-06-05 18:48:28 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> it would be really nice to pitch the epel10 hackfest during the state of epel talk
2024-06-05 18:49:00 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Is there any other Open Floor items?  Or are we ok ending a little early?
2024-06-05 18:50:20 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you all for coming, and for the very good discussions.  And thank you very much for all you do for EPEL and it's community.
2024-06-05 18:50:28 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Talk to you next week, if not sooner.
2024-06-05 18:50:38 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !endmeeting