<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:00:13
!startmeeting EPEL (2024-07-17)
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
18:00:13
Meeting started at 2024-07-17 18:00:13 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
18:00:14
The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2024-07-17)'
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:00:19
!meetingname epel
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
18:00:19
The Meeting Name is now epel
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:00:23
!topic aloha
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:00:40
morning.
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:00:48
hello
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:01:18
Morning nirik
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:01:24
Hello Stephen J Smoogen
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:01:47
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:01:49
Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:02:45
Hi Michel Lind 🎩
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:02:59
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:03:40
Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:03:47
Hi Carl George
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:04:07
We're a little light on people today. Must be tea time somewhere.
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:04:22
or summer haze
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:04:57
time to spice it up with a 'We aren't doing EPEL10 until RHEL10.4 is out due to lack of participation.'
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:04:58
Still lunchtime here, took my youngest kid to lunch and not back at my desk yet. Phone keyboard will have to do for the first part of the meeting.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:05:20
summer, heat wave, ...
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:05:30
roadwork causing traffic chaos :P
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:31
!topic End Of Life (EOL)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:37
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:37
-- https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11292#comment-916924
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:37
- Finish dropping epel8 modularity
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:37
-- https://pagure.io/epel/pull-request/280
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:37
- Write-up SOP - Smooge
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:37
-- https://pagure.io/releng/issue/12185
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:37
- File releng issue to EOL epel7 - carl
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:37
RHEL 7 / epel-7 went EOL on 2024-06-30
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:57
I think this will be the last time I have this topic, unless people want me to continue.
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:05:57
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:05:59
Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:06:05
I was going to move it into Old Business.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:06:08
Death of an EL
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:06:36
Then it can continue to say "I'm not dead yet ..."
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:06:57
Hi Davide Cavalca
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:07:15
I'm seeing that all three items are still being worked on.
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:07:23
It's a Norwegian Blue EL7
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:07:32
mostly dead is slightly alive!
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:08:16
anyway back to the meeting
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:08:26
I see that the epel7 packages have been tagged back in, and not been un-tagged again. So that is good.
<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>
18:08:29
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:08:30
Jonathan Wright (jonathanspw)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:08:36
Hi Jonathan Wright
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:08:50
my tagging is actually still running, but it's about... 77% done
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:09:05
Oh ... when you said slow, you meant slow.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:09:28
yeah, not fast. Didnt want to cause any load issues...
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:09:51
OK, so we still have a few days before that one can close.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:10:11
Carl George: Are you the one working on the epel8 modularity stuff?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:10:34
Or has nobody stepped up for that one.
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
18:11:05
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:11:06
Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:11:12
Hi Robby Callicotte
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:11:19
wow, we're close to a full house, it turns out :)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:11:58
It looks like Smooges SOP pull request has gotten some feedback, so that is good.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:12:36
I wasn't actively working that one, don't think I have the necessary permissions
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:13:21
Oh ya. That's really not something one of us can just take up. OK.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:14:01
Like I said, I think I'm going to move this whole section into Old Business, and let the final issues resolve when they resolve.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:14:14
Anything else we need to talk about for EOL before we move on?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:14:21
Sounds good
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:14:50
!topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:14:54
https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:15:22
Thank you nirik
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:15:31
WE do have one open meeting issue this week.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:15:51
!link https://pagure.io/epel/issue/282
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:16:40
I'm good with this one. What are others thoughts?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:17:00
yeah, this is fine
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:17:12
I'm in favor of this upgrade, just needs the steps followed for notifications
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:17:44
And we should do a bit of hand holding or else I fear the maintainer will misunderstand the next steps
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:17:58
Yep. This one they needed a bit of guiding through the proceedures, but they've done them good once they were reminding/pointed in the right way.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:18:22
(if Frantisek forgets we should remind him to put up the issue next week)
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:18:59
yeah, +1
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:19:28
Clamav +1 from me too
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:19:57
to make counting easier, +1
<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>
18:20:03
+1
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:20:16
+1
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:21:11
I believe that is all committee members present ... Any non-committee people want to vote?
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
18:21:26
+1 from me
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:21:46
I think Davide hasn't voted?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:21:53
though we have enough in favor
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:21:58
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:22:06
Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:22:23
+1 from me as long as everything is taken care of
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:22:47
!agreed Issue #282 passed - All who voted voted in positive (7 votes) - no against.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:23:06
Sorry for the wording on that ... but it get's the point across.
<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>
18:23:44
Just lost internet. On cell phone :(
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:24:13
And yes, if the other one doesn't get the issue created in the next couple of days, please remind them.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:24:44
It was posted Tuesday so they can't open the issue until next Tue right?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:25:28
It doesn't really matter about when for the issue, but it cannot be voted on until there has been discussion on the mailling list for a week.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:25:30
That's how I read the policy. Maybe we can relax it so they can open immediately but we hold off until a week to discuss it
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:26:04
Oh, you are reading it that we can't do step 4 until step 3 is done
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:26:55
I was reading that step 4 could happen at any time, but step 5 couldn't happen until a week after.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:27:09
I was surprised too when I read it (but wanted to be careful in giving advice) and yeah, it's a bit ambiguous right now and can be read both ways
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:27:48
Yep. A tweaking of wording would make it more clear.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:28:24
I can put up a PR for that (famous last words... but might as well since someone needs the policy now)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:28:43
That would be great. Thank you.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:28:53
everyone is in agreement that we prefer people don't need to wait (and potentially forget) if they have to wait before opening the issue, right?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:29:50
Seems fine to me
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:29:58
I do. I think they can/should open the issue at the same time as sending the email. Otherwise, people forget, as you said.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:30:03
Better for awareness anyways
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:30:27
nods
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:30:48
I'll put up a PR, we can hopefully get it merged fast, then I'll reply to the list giving Frantisek a heads up and ask him to file
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:30:52
then we can tag that for meeting
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:31:34
OK, moving on.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:31:47
!topic EPEL 10
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:31:51
https://hackmd.io/q6TNkYjJT82EtzhlyPGpog
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:32:06
Carl George: I'll let you lead this one.
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:32:53
nice
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:33:08
i got epel10 support merged in the scm_request_processor toddler, but i haven't confirmed yet if it works yet
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:33:16
!link https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/toddlers/pull-request/211
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:33:36
salimma has already given cookies to carlwgeorge during the F40 timeframe
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:34:13
i'll probably try to request an epel10 branch on epel-rpm-macros soon to see what happens, and make any necessary adjustments to fedpkg or the toddler
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:34:22
or epel-release
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:34:46
epel-rpm-macros is a fairly safe one
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:34:52
since we need it before anything else _anyway_
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:34:58
Ohh ... that sounds like we're getting close.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:35:00
not true
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:35:15
eh? it's our buildroot extended macros
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:35:27
I think Carl means not true to 'it's close'
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:35:31
i'm pretty sure we started epel9 without it and added it later
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:35:32
not that epel-rpm-macros is safe
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:35:38
oh?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:35:41
It's almost time to start saying "no ... stop ... not yet ... please not yet." :)
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:35:49
yes epel-rpm-macros is safe, no that it's needed before anything else
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:35:54
yeah I guess some packages might build without the macros. but many probably won't
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:36:06
or will build funny, so... probably best to have it soon anyway
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:36:28
first actual thing is a bootstrapped fedpkg-minimal, then regular fedpkg, then we can build whatever. we only need to build epel-rpm-macros when we have base macros we need to override.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:37:26
of course not opposed to getting epel-rpm-macros built early, but it's not a blocker for the minimum viable state (which i'm trying to reach before flock for the epel10 hackfest)
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:37:46
in fact the initial build of that will be empty and rather pointless
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:37:49
depending on how Fedora stuff adds/changes things it can be 1 or 2 more packages after fedpkg (and all its prereqs) get in
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:38:39
fedpkg-minimal shouldn't need any bootstraping? or you mean it's needed to bootstrap fedpkg?
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:38:56
yeah I meant fedpkg
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:39:00
not minimal
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:40:07
builds need fedpkg-minimal to clone dist-git repos. can't build fedpkg-minimal without fedpkg-minimal. so the bootstrap is to tag the epel9 fedpkg-minimal into the override, build the epel10 fedpkg-minimal, then remove the override.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:40:36
fedpkg isn't needed, it's not used by koji and we skipped it for epel9 (although it did show up about a year after launch)
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:41:25
I think it eventually showed up because Troy and me need it to work in an EL only environment :)
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:41:43
oh, I see what you mean, ok.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:42:14
these steps (if commands make it more clear than words) https://hackmd.io/q6TNkYjJT82EtzhlyPGpog#fedpkg-minimal-bootstrap
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
18:42:38
would you tag the fedpkg-minimal from epel9 or us the f40 version? not that theres that much of a difference
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:42:50
either way, it's just a bash script
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
18:42:59
yup
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:43:41
in fact i'll probably do the production koji steps and fedpkg-minimal bootstrap in the next week, i think that's what's next on my plate
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:45:32
i think that's it for now on epel10, we can move on
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:45:48
Thank you Carl George and everyone else who is helping with that.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:45:57
!topic Old Business
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:46:07
Does anyone have any other Old Business?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:47:40
I have the PR ready but I guess it's not old business yet :P
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:47:47
I'll send the link when we get to open floor
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:48:07
!topic General Issues / Open Floor
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:48:14
Michel Lind 🎩: Go for it. :)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:48:17
https://pagure.io/epel/pull-request/283
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:48:30
I also clarified that it's steering committee members who vote on this :)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:48:46
one thing I just realized ... oh when we do an incompat upgrade we need to post to epel-announce as well huh
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:49:04
do all of us have the permission to (a) post directly and (b) moderate posts by non-SC members?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:50:16
Nobody has permissions to post directly, they all have to be moderated.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:50:19
i don't think anyone can post directly, i can approve messages but even my messages go to the approval queue
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:50:23
But I know that I have permissions to moderate.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:50:27
i can approve stuff too
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:50:57
should all SC members be able to moderate? though it does not matter really, as long as we know some people take care of those
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:51:03
Right, thats how all the announce lists work
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:52:10
looks like it's me, nirik, Stephen J Smoogen, and Troy Dawson as owners
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:52:26
i think it's a good idea to add the other committee members as moderators
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:52:38
In the ideal world, a different person than the poster would always be approver... to catch problems with the post, etc.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:53:53
sure, we could. In practice it usually doesn't matter...
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:55:27
Not to cut this conversation short, but we've got 5 minutes. Are there any other topics for Open Floor ?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:56:05
so yeah or nay on adding the other committee members? i think i found the page to do it, if we want.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:56:29
I'm fine with it.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:56:30
or rather, if no one is opposed, i'll go ahead
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:57:15
sure, seems fine. If we add them, do we remove them when someone leaves? do we have on/offboarding docs to tweak?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:57:43
we need to create committee onboarding docs before we can tweak them
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:57:58
We currently don't have on/offboarding docs. But we should. List all the places to change each election.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:58:19
I'm ok with having that doc first and getting access to the mailing list later
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:58:28
it's not urgent, and we might as well do it properly :)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:58:45
2 mins
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:58:58
I think Michel Lind 🎩 doesn't want all the "This spam bounced" messages that moderators get.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:59:00
either way. :) just wanted to mention it
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:59:01
i have one quick thing for open floor
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:59:05
Though it is rather low.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:59:27
Carl George: Go for it.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:59:27
I get that for some of my lists. annoyingly those messages often also go to spam :P
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
19:00:55
i saw somewhere this week (probably the main matrix channel) that the epel install instructions still mention epel7 and epel8-next. we of course should remove them. james was working on that for a docs pr, but since that will take longer i'm going to do a separate pr just to get those small changes in.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
19:01:12
it's much better with the new mailman version (ie, it catches a lot more of them)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:01:27
nice
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:01:32
Carl George: That sounds good. Thank you for doing that.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:01:40
that packaging effort is bearing fruit
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
19:01:59
ok, all the committee members are now either owners or moderators for epel-announce
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
19:02:24
i'll do the same for epel-devel, since those sometimes need approval (something about implicit destination or something)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:02:34
Our time is up. Thank you all for the very good discussions. And thank you for all the work you do for EPEL and it's community.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:02:43
I'll talk to you next week, if not sooner.
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
19:02:46
salimma has already given cookies to tdawson during the F40 timeframe
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:02:52
And I can't wait to see many of you in person at Flock.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:03:01
wearing Troy's shirts!
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
19:03:02
YES
<@smooge:fedora.im>
19:03:12
thanks Troy
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
19:03:25
if y'all didn't see, the social event is a trip to niagra falls
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:03:26
!endmeeting