2024-07-17 18:00:13 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !startmeeting EPEL (2024-07-17)
2024-07-17 18:00:13 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-07-17 18:00:13 UTC
2024-07-17 18:00:14 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2024-07-17)'
2024-07-17 18:00:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !meetingname epel
2024-07-17 18:00:19 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now epel
2024-07-17 18:00:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic aloha
2024-07-17 18:00:40 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> morning.
2024-07-17 18:00:48 <@smooge:fedora.im> hello
2024-07-17 18:01:18 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Morning nirik 
2024-07-17 18:01:24 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hello Stephen J Smoogen 
2024-07-17 18:01:47 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2024-07-17 18:01:49 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2024-07-17 18:02:45 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Michel Lind 🎩 
2024-07-17 18:02:59 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !hi
2024-07-17 18:03:40 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2024-07-17 18:03:47 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Carl George 
2024-07-17 18:04:07 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We're a little light on people today.  Must be tea time somewhere.
2024-07-17 18:04:22 <@smooge:fedora.im> or summer haze
2024-07-17 18:04:57 <@smooge:fedora.im> time to spice it up with a 'We aren't doing EPEL10 until RHEL10.4 is out due to lack of participation.'
2024-07-17 18:04:58 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> Still lunchtime here, took my youngest kid to lunch and not back at my desk yet.  Phone keyboard will have to do for the first part of the meeting.
2024-07-17 18:05:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> summer, heat wave, ...
2024-07-17 18:05:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> roadwork causing traffic chaos :P
2024-07-17 18:05:31 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic End Of Life (EOL)
2024-07-17 18:05:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> 
2024-07-17 18:05:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> -- https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11292#comment-916924
2024-07-17 18:05:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> - Finish dropping epel8 modularity
2024-07-17 18:05:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> -- https://pagure.io/epel/pull-request/280
2024-07-17 18:05:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> - Write-up SOP - Smooge
2024-07-17 18:05:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> -- https://pagure.io/releng/issue/12185
2024-07-17 18:05:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> - File releng issue to EOL epel7 - carl
2024-07-17 18:05:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> RHEL 7 / epel-7 went EOL on 2024-06-30
2024-07-17 18:05:57 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I think this will be the last time I have this topic, unless people want me to continue.
2024-07-17 18:05:57 <@davide:cavalca.name> !hi
2024-07-17 18:05:59 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
2024-07-17 18:06:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I was going to move it into Old Business.
2024-07-17 18:06:08 <@salimma:fedora.im> Death of an EL
2024-07-17 18:06:36 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Then it can continue to say "I'm not dead yet ..."
2024-07-17 18:06:57 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Davide Cavalca 
2024-07-17 18:07:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm seeing that all three items are still being worked on.
2024-07-17 18:07:23 <@smooge:fedora.im> It's a Norwegian Blue EL7
2024-07-17 18:07:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> mostly dead is slightly alive!
2024-07-17 18:08:16 <@smooge:fedora.im> anyway back to the meeting
2024-07-17 18:08:26 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I see that the epel7 packages have been tagged back in, and not been un-tagged again.  So that is good.
2024-07-17 18:08:29 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> !hi
2024-07-17 18:08:30 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jonathan Wright (jonathanspw)
2024-07-17 18:08:36 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Jonathan Wright 
2024-07-17 18:08:50 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> my tagging is actually still running, but it's about... 77% done
2024-07-17 18:09:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh ... when you said slow, you meant slow.
2024-07-17 18:09:28 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, not fast. Didnt want to cause any load issues...
2024-07-17 18:09:51 <@tdawson:fedora.im> OK, so we still have a few days before that one can close.
2024-07-17 18:10:11 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Carl George: Are you the one working on the epel8 modularity stuff?
2024-07-17 18:10:34 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Or has nobody stepped up for that one.
2024-07-17 18:11:05 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> !hi
2024-07-17 18:11:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
2024-07-17 18:11:12 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Robby Callicotte 
2024-07-17 18:11:19 <@salimma:fedora.im> wow, we're close to a full house, it turns out :)
2024-07-17 18:11:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> It looks like Smooges SOP pull request has gotten some feedback, so that is good.
2024-07-17 18:12:36 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> I wasn't actively working that one, don't think I have the necessary permissions
2024-07-17 18:13:21 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh ya.  That's really not something one of us can just take up.  OK.
2024-07-17 18:14:01 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Like I said, I think I'm going to move this whole section into Old Business, and let the final issues resolve when they resolve.
2024-07-17 18:14:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anything else we need to talk about for EOL before we move on?
2024-07-17 18:14:21 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> Sounds good
2024-07-17 18:14:50 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
2024-07-17 18:14:54 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
2024-07-17 18:15:22 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you nirik 
2024-07-17 18:15:31 <@tdawson:fedora.im> WE do have one open meeting issue this week.
2024-07-17 18:15:51 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/epel/issue/282
2024-07-17 18:16:40 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm good with this one.  What are others thoughts?
2024-07-17 18:17:00 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, this is fine
2024-07-17 18:17:12 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> I'm in favor of this upgrade, just needs the steps followed for notifications
2024-07-17 18:17:44 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> And we should do a bit of hand holding or else I fear the maintainer will misunderstand the next steps
2024-07-17 18:17:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Yep.  This one they needed a bit of guiding through the proceedures, but they've done them good once they were reminding/pointed in the right way.
2024-07-17 18:18:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> (if Frantisek forgets we should remind him to put up the issue next week)
2024-07-17 18:18:59 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, +1
2024-07-17 18:19:28 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Clamav +1 from me too
2024-07-17 18:19:57 <@salimma:fedora.im> to make counting easier, +1
2024-07-17 18:20:03 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> +1
2024-07-17 18:20:16 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> +1
2024-07-17 18:21:11 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I believe that is all committee members present ... Any non-committee people want to vote?
2024-07-17 18:21:26 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> +1 from me
2024-07-17 18:21:46 <@salimma:fedora.im> I think Davide hasn't voted?
2024-07-17 18:21:53 <@salimma:fedora.im> though we have enough in favor
2024-07-17 18:21:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-07-17 18:22:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-07-17 18:22:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1 from me as long as everything is taken care of
2024-07-17 18:22:47 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !agreed Issue #282 passed - All who voted voted in positive (7 votes)  - no against.
2024-07-17 18:23:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sorry for the wording on that ... but it get's the point across.
2024-07-17 18:23:44 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> Just lost internet.  On cell phone :(
2024-07-17 18:24:13 <@tdawson:fedora.im> And yes, if the other one doesn't get the issue created in the next couple of days, please remind them.
2024-07-17 18:24:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> It was posted Tuesday so they can't open the issue until next Tue right? 
2024-07-17 18:25:28 <@tdawson:fedora.im> It doesn't really matter about when for the issue, but it cannot be voted on until there has been discussion on the mailling list for a week.
2024-07-17 18:25:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> That's how I read the policy. Maybe we can relax it so they can open immediately but we hold off until a week to discuss it
2024-07-17 18:26:04 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh, you are reading it that we can't do step 4 until step 3 is done 
2024-07-17 18:26:55 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I was reading that step 4 could happen at any time, but step 5 couldn't happen until a week after.
2024-07-17 18:27:09 <@salimma:fedora.im> I was surprised too when I read it (but wanted to be careful in giving advice) and yeah, it's a bit ambiguous right now and can be read both ways
2024-07-17 18:27:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Yep.  A tweaking of wording would make it more clear.
2024-07-17 18:28:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> I can put up a PR for that (famous last words... but might as well since someone needs the policy now)
2024-07-17 18:28:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That would be great.  Thank you.
2024-07-17 18:28:53 <@salimma:fedora.im> everyone is in agreement that we prefer people don't need to wait (and potentially forget) if they have to wait before opening the issue, right?
2024-07-17 18:29:50 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> Seems fine to me
2024-07-17 18:29:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I do.  I think they can/should open the issue at the same time as sending the email.  Otherwise, people forget, as you said.
2024-07-17 18:30:03 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> Better for awareness anyways
2024-07-17 18:30:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> nods
2024-07-17 18:30:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'll put up a PR, we can hopefully get it merged fast, then I'll reply to the list giving Frantisek a heads up and ask him to file
2024-07-17 18:30:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> then we can tag that for meeting
2024-07-17 18:31:34 <@tdawson:fedora.im> OK, moving on.
2024-07-17 18:31:47 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic EPEL 10
2024-07-17 18:31:51 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://hackmd.io/q6TNkYjJT82EtzhlyPGpog
2024-07-17 18:32:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Carl George: I'll let you lead this one.
2024-07-17 18:32:53 <@smooge:fedora.im> nice
2024-07-17 18:33:08 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i got epel10 support merged in the scm_request_processor toddler, but i haven't confirmed yet if it works yet
2024-07-17 18:33:16 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/toddlers/pull-request/211
2024-07-17 18:33:36 <@zodbot:fedora.im> salimma has already given cookies to carlwgeorge during the F40 timeframe
2024-07-17 18:34:13 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i'll probably try to request an epel10 branch on epel-rpm-macros soon to see what happens, and make any necessary adjustments to fedpkg or the toddler
2024-07-17 18:34:22 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> or epel-release
2024-07-17 18:34:46 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> epel-rpm-macros is a fairly safe one
2024-07-17 18:34:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> since we need it before anything else _anyway_
2024-07-17 18:34:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ohh ... that sounds like we're getting close.
2024-07-17 18:35:00 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> not true
2024-07-17 18:35:15 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> eh? it's our buildroot extended macros
2024-07-17 18:35:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> I think Carl means not true to 'it's close'
2024-07-17 18:35:31 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i'm pretty sure we started epel9 without it and added it later
2024-07-17 18:35:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> not that epel-rpm-macros is safe
2024-07-17 18:35:38 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh?
2024-07-17 18:35:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> It's almost time to start saying "no ... stop ... not yet ... please not yet." :)
2024-07-17 18:35:49 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> yes epel-rpm-macros is safe, no that it's needed before anything else
2024-07-17 18:35:54 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah I guess some packages might build without the macros. but many probably won't
2024-07-17 18:36:06 <@salimma:fedora.im> or will build funny, so... probably best to have it soon anyway
2024-07-17 18:36:28 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> first actual thing is a bootstrapped fedpkg-minimal, then regular fedpkg, then we can build whatever.  we only need to build epel-rpm-macros when we have base macros we need to override.
2024-07-17 18:37:26 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> of course not opposed to getting epel-rpm-macros built early, but it's not a blocker for the minimum viable state (which i'm trying to reach before flock for the epel10 hackfest)
2024-07-17 18:37:46 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> in fact the initial build of that will be empty and rather pointless
2024-07-17 18:37:49 <@smooge:fedora.im> depending on how Fedora stuff adds/changes things it can be 1 or 2 more packages after fedpkg (and all its prereqs) get in
2024-07-17 18:38:39 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> fedpkg-minimal shouldn't need any bootstraping? or you mean it's needed to bootstrap fedpkg?
2024-07-17 18:38:56 <@smooge:fedora.im> yeah I meant fedpkg
2024-07-17 18:39:00 <@smooge:fedora.im> not minimal
2024-07-17 18:40:07 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> builds need fedpkg-minimal to clone dist-git repos.  can't build fedpkg-minimal without fedpkg-minimal.  so the bootstrap is to tag the epel9 fedpkg-minimal into the override, build the epel10 fedpkg-minimal, then remove the override.
2024-07-17 18:40:36 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> fedpkg isn't needed, it's not used by koji and we skipped it for epel9 (although it did show up about a year after launch)
2024-07-17 18:41:25 <@smooge:fedora.im> I think it eventually showed up because Troy and me need it to work in an EL only environment :)
2024-07-17 18:41:43 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> oh, I see what you mean, ok.
2024-07-17 18:42:14 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> these steps (if commands make it more clear than words) https://hackmd.io/q6TNkYjJT82EtzhlyPGpog#fedpkg-minimal-bootstrap
2024-07-17 18:42:38 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> would you tag the fedpkg-minimal from epel9 or us the f40 version?  not that theres that much of a difference 
2024-07-17 18:42:50 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> either way, it's just a bash script
2024-07-17 18:42:59 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> yup
2024-07-17 18:43:41 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> in fact i'll probably do the production koji steps and fedpkg-minimal bootstrap in the next week, i think that's what's next on my plate
2024-07-17 18:45:32 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i think that's it for now on epel10, we can move on
2024-07-17 18:45:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you Carl George  and everyone else who is helping with that.
2024-07-17 18:45:57 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Old Business
2024-07-17 18:46:07 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Does anyone have any other Old Business?
2024-07-17 18:47:40 <@salimma:fedora.im> I have the PR ready but I guess it's not old business yet :P
2024-07-17 18:47:47 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'll send the link when we get to open floor
2024-07-17 18:48:07 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic General Issues / Open Floor
2024-07-17 18:48:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Michel Lind 🎩: Go for it. :)
2024-07-17 18:48:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/epel/pull-request/283
2024-07-17 18:48:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> I also clarified that it's steering committee members who vote on this :)
2024-07-17 18:48:46 <@salimma:fedora.im> one thing I just realized ... oh when we do an incompat upgrade we need to post to epel-announce as well huh
2024-07-17 18:49:04 <@salimma:fedora.im> do all of us have the permission to (a) post directly and (b) moderate posts by non-SC members?
2024-07-17 18:50:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Nobody has permissions to post directly, they all have to be moderated.
2024-07-17 18:50:19 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i don't think anyone can post directly, i can approve messages but even my messages go to the approval queue
2024-07-17 18:50:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> But I know that I have permissions to moderate.
2024-07-17 18:50:27 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i can approve stuff too
2024-07-17 18:50:57 <@salimma:fedora.im> should all SC members be able to moderate? though it does not matter really, as long as we know some people take care of those
2024-07-17 18:51:03 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Right, thats how all the announce lists work
2024-07-17 18:52:10 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> looks like it's me, nirik, Stephen J Smoogen, and Troy Dawson as owners
2024-07-17 18:52:26 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i think it's a good idea to add the other committee members as moderators
2024-07-17 18:52:38 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> In the ideal world, a different person than the poster would always be approver... to catch problems with the post, etc.
2024-07-17 18:53:53 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> sure, we could. In practice it usually doesn't matter...
2024-07-17 18:55:27 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Not to cut this conversation short, but we've got 5 minutes.  Are there any other topics for Open Floor ?
2024-07-17 18:56:05 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> so yeah or nay on adding the other committee members?  i think i found the page to do it, if we want.
2024-07-17 18:56:29 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm fine with it.
2024-07-17 18:56:30 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> or rather, if no one is opposed, i'll go ahead
2024-07-17 18:57:15 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> sure, seems fine. If we add them, do we remove them when someone leaves? do we have on/offboarding docs to tweak?
2024-07-17 18:57:43 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> we need to create committee onboarding docs before we can tweak them
2024-07-17 18:57:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We currently don't have on/offboarding docs.  But we should.  List all the places to change each election.
2024-07-17 18:58:19 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm ok with having that doc first and getting access to the mailing list later
2024-07-17 18:58:28 <@salimma:fedora.im> it's not urgent, and we might as well do it properly :)
2024-07-17 18:58:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> 2 mins
2024-07-17 18:58:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I think Michel Lind 🎩 doesn't want all the "This spam bounced" messages that moderators get.
2024-07-17 18:59:00 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> either way. :) just wanted to mention it
2024-07-17 18:59:01 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i have one quick thing for open floor
2024-07-17 18:59:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Though it is rather low.
2024-07-17 18:59:27 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Carl George: Go for it.
2024-07-17 18:59:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> I get that for some of my lists. annoyingly those messages often also go to spam :P
2024-07-17 19:00:55 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i saw somewhere this week (probably the main matrix channel) that the epel install instructions still mention epel7 and epel8-next.  we of course should remove them.  james was working on that for a docs pr, but since that will take longer i'm going to do a separate pr just to get those small changes in.
2024-07-17 19:01:12 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> it's much better with the new mailman version (ie, it catches a lot more of them)
2024-07-17 19:01:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> nice
2024-07-17 19:01:32 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Carl George: That sounds good.  Thank you for doing that.
2024-07-17 19:01:40 <@salimma:fedora.im> that packaging effort is bearing fruit
2024-07-17 19:01:59 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> ok, all the committee members are now either owners or moderators for epel-announce
2024-07-17 19:02:24 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i'll do the same for epel-devel, since those sometimes need approval (something about implicit destination or something)
2024-07-17 19:02:34 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Our time is up.  Thank you all for the very good discussions.  And thank you for all the work you do for EPEL and it's community.
2024-07-17 19:02:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'll talk to you next week, if not sooner.
2024-07-17 19:02:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> salimma has already given cookies to tdawson during the F40 timeframe
2024-07-17 19:02:52 <@tdawson:fedora.im> And I can't wait to see many of you in person at Flock.
2024-07-17 19:03:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> wearing Troy's shirts!
2024-07-17 19:03:02 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> YES
2024-07-17 19:03:12 <@smooge:fedora.im> thanks Troy
2024-07-17 19:03:25 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> if y'all didn't see, the social event is a trip to niagra falls
2024-07-17 19:03:26 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !endmeeting