#meeting-1:fedoraproject.org log

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:00:09

!startmeeting EPEL (2024-09-11)

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

18:00:10

Meeting started at 2024-09-11 18:00:09 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

18:00:10

The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2024-09-11)'

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:00:15

!topic aloha

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:00:15

!meetingname epel

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

18:00:16

The Meeting Name is now epel

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:00:28

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:00:29

Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his

<@davide:cavalca.name>

18:01:22

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:01:23

Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:01:33

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:01:36

Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:03:17

Hi Neil Hanlon Davide Cavalca and Carl George

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:03:39

morning

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:03:50

Morning nirik

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:04:01

hello

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:04:14

Hello Stephen J Smoogen

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:16

!link https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:16

!topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:40

We're a little light on ticket ... and people as well ... which is actually ok.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:53

!topic EPEL 10

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:53

https://hackmd.io/q6TNkYjJT82EtzhlyPGpog

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:06:13

i've got good and bad news

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:06:41

start with the bad

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:07:11

the good news is we got the nightly rawhide-style compose working, separate from bodhi. now updates are created automatically and move to stable with no interaction, which is what we wanted until the official launch.

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:07:35

tdawson has already given cookies to carlwgeorge during the F40 timeframe

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:07:41

neil has already given cookies to carlwgeorge during the F40 timeframe

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:07:57

I have totally enjoyed that. Thank you, and thanks to everyone who helped get that done.

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:08:30

dherrera gave a cookie to carlwgeorge. They now have 67 cookies, 20 of which were obtained in the Fedora 40 release cycle

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:08:41

the bad news i just realized last night was that the repo path is slightly different, it has an os directory now. it seems to be a subtle difference in how the compose-partial-copy tool and the new-updates-sync script (bodhi method) work. this results in our previously working mirrormanager links no longer working.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:09:25

when bodhi was doing the compose the epel10 repo looked like epel9 https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/9/Everything/x86_64/

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:09:35

now it's https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/10/Everything/x86_64/os/

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:10:33

i'd love for nirik to weigh in on this if he knows a simple solution, but one options is we just ignore this and tell people the repo doesn't work until we switch back to bodhi for the official launch

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:10:39

bummer

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:10:46

Ohhh ... I just tried ... and yep, I can't get stuff from the mirrors. :*(

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:11:50

I think we can tweak mirorrmanager... I'd say file a ticket and we can sort it...

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:12:04

or we could sync the sync script to do the other way

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:12:50

I'd like to get it fixed, which ever is most appropriate, but I think getting it fixed is a good thing.

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:13:01

I can PR a fix for mirrormanager, it's the scan-primary-mirror config here https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/blob/main/f/roles/openshift-apps/mirrormanager/templates/scan-primary-mirror.toml#_16

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:13:16

though that config would affect all epel, not just 10

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:13:23

so need to be careful ;)

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:13:43

prob should remove modular from there, separately

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:13:43

and keep in mind this would be a change to mirrormanager just for a few months

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:14:21

I'm not sure it's that it's not scanning the new place so much as it already scanned the old one and still has that in it's db.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:14:26

but I could be wrong. ;)

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:15:09

needs more investigation, but i wanted to let everyone know

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:15:09

could be, but if the paths are different, scan-primary-mirror should insert those and reassociate

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:15:21

I will file a ticket for it, Carl

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:15:28

thanks

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:16:12

the thing is the os won't be a part of the path long term

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:16:33

so do we adjust mirrormanager to also catch the short term path, or fix the path

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:16:43

i'm leaning towards the latter, but don't know how hard it will be

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:17:03

yep, i think it's worth considering both options.. so I'll delineate them

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:17:55

smooge has already given cookies to carlwgeorge during the F40 timeframe

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:18:39

I have to say, although that is bad news ... it's not that bad of news ... I'll take it over the other things that went through my mind.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:18:51

me too

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:18:53

hehe

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:19:07

"I have taken a job with Canonical"

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:19:26

the bright side is we haven't advertised the url to anyone yet, so if anyone is disrupted we can say "we never told you to use that url"

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:19:58

although the urls are in the first epel-release for 10 if they found that (also not pointing people at that yet, and no latest link)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:20:13

Correct, and we don't have the "latest" link to epel-release. So the only people who are using are those that know enough to go to the right place to get epel-release.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:20:45

literally this morning had someone inside red hat ask me for a link to start consuming epel10, and i said no

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:21:18

i can't stop them if they find it, it's not hard to poke around dl.fpo, but if i give them a url that later changes they won't be happy

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:21:41

as they say, nothing more permanent than a temporary fix

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:22:36

that's it for epel10, we can move on

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:23:03

As of ... just a few minutes ago, we now have 1470 package tagged into epel10.0

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:23:40

We're growing and a good pace. I'm having to request fewer and fewer packages as I go along.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:23:48

OK, but let's move on.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:23:59

!topic Old Business

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:24:18

Does anyone have any old Business?

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:24:30

not me

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:24:54

Oh ... I thought it was you ...

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:25:15

Hmm ... not the best zinger ... sorry about that.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:25:57

Sounds like no old business ... moving on.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:26:07

!topic General Issues / Open Floor

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:26:23

Does anyone have anything for the open floor?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:26:29

quick one here

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:26:52

i worked with akashdeep (don't remember his matrix id) to get epel10 working in staging mdapi

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:26:55

https://mdapi.stg.fedoraproject.org/branches

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:27:15

i don't know what the timeline is for that to go to production, but it seems to be in good shape now

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:27:44

example https://mdapi.stg.fedoraproject.org/epel10/pkg/tinyproxy

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:27:52

Sorry ... my emojie's just don't apply where I want them to today.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:28:47

anyone else for open floor?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:28:47

Very nice.

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:29:10

yselkowitz has already given cookies to carlwgeorge during the F40 timeframe

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:29:20

I liked the graph of packages in EPEL that troy put togeterh

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:29:29

i have somethingish

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:29:39

finding link.. one sec

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:30:15

Thanks. I was seeing how easy/hard it would be to adjust my script for epel10, and as you can see, it was fairly easy.

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:30:25

smooge has already given cookies to tdawson during the F40 timeframe

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:32:14

https://github.com/chaos/whatsup/issues/23

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:32:14

Someone asked me to update whatsup in EPEL, as there was a bug they're hitting fixed.. but the change is from 1.14 to 1.15, and it's the first release of whatsup since 2015. The maintainer says there's no breaking changes aside from a removed plugin which wasn't working, anyways.

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:32:14

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:32:14

My question, given that this isn't supposed to break anything, is whether i need any documentation for updating the package a minor rev like this in epel.

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:32:14

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:32:41

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2310844

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:33:18

If there's no user visible changes, I would think it would be fine.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:33:44

it's a judgement call. the most strict view would be a removal is a breaking change, but it's a grey area if that part already wasn't working.

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:34:08

Yeah, that is sorta the angel and devil on my shoulder :)

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:34:29

i figured it was safer to ask

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:34:38

I guess when in doubt ... send an email ...

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:34:46

my general rule is to gather all the info i can about the changes, like you did, then do a fresh read of https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/epel/epel-policy/ with the changes in mind

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:36:45

Seems sane. I think I will send an email this afternoon then, announcing the intention to update whatsup in epel9 to 1.15, and next week sometime will push a build to bodhi assuming no rebukes

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:37:13

was the epel build shipping the openib plugin that was mentioned?

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:38:07

on x86 and power, i believe it was

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:38:15

but i don't know it worked ever

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:38:33

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:38:33

> With the minor exception that the "OpenIB" up/down plugin has been removed b/c that no longer worked on newer versions of OpenIB.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:38:33

i'm suggest digging a little deeper on this statement from the dev

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:38:50

yes, re-reading that it appears it _could_ be working in EPEL...

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:38:52

does "newer versions of openib" even apply to rhel/epel 9?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:39:12

that's the subtle thing to sort before making said judgement call

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:40:49

alternatively, you could try your hand at backporting the commit in the bug to the existing version

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:41:29

Aye, that would work as well. i may do that as a stop-gap for this user, too.. assuming it applies relatively cleanly in and of itself

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:42:04

usually people that say they need a version don't need a version, they need a thing that is in that version

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:42:15

users lie 😀

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:42:23

heh

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:42:39

i think probably the libibcommon thing is not applicable, it looks like we've had the same version of it in fedora for a _while_

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:42:59

- Update to latest upstream version

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:42:59

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:42:59

* Wed Apr 22 2009 Doug Ledford <dledford@redhat.com> - 1.2.0-1

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:43:40

hmm, might want to ask the whatsup dev to clarify the newer version thing he's talking about

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:43:46

yeah, going to

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

18:45:18

https://github.com/chaos/whatsup/compare/whatsup-1-14-1...whatsup-1-15-1#diff-fedf9da11dba9d3c31f14fa5bb3f59501ff2649c673731938d78edea2b22dd05L76 < there

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

18:45:18

https://github.com/chaos/whatsup/compare/whatsup-1-14-1...whatsup-1-15-1 I was browsing it, and most of the changes seem to be CI/CD, deployment and doc improvements. At most I found a function that changed it's returned a value

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

18:46:06

but I doubt that it is relevant for this kind of utility

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

18:46:10

(hi btw)

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:46:17

hi :) and thanks!

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:46:39

Are there any other Open Floor items?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:47:23

there was the openssl-devel-engine thing, if yselkowitz wants to cover it

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:47:37

i filed https://issues.redhat.com/browse/RHEL-58344 to explain the epel impact

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:48:25

I saw that, and saw the reply. Does anyone want to give a summary?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:50:28

i'm in the middle of a stern reply about the support comment being invalid, because epel

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:50:39

i'm in the middle of a stern reply comment about the support comment being invalid, because epel

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:50:54

my tl;dr after speaking to clang on irc briefly is ... there's a mix of things. probably many of the packages can be trivially modified to patch out engine support they're not using. but that doesn't really fix EPEL's issues, nor the packages which can't live in the perfect world described

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:51:12

To me the summary was three parts. 1) Update your spec files, because you really don't need it. 2) Update you header files because you really don't need it. 3) If you really do need it, fix your code.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:51:37

in rhel the crypto team can compel rhel maintainers to meet their ideals. we have no power over volunteer epel maintainers to do the same.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:52:14

basically epel has to meet reality where it is, not shift it

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:52:50

the alternative won't be everyone gets their shit together and stops using engines, it's that they just won't have the package in epel

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:55:00

the perfect compromise: we all lose !

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:55:50

I will try and put some of my thoughts on it together in the ticket. Thanks for filing it Carl

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:56:35

We're getting low on time. Any other quick Open Floor items before we close the meeting?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:57:37

I'll take the silence as "nothing else".

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:57:59

Thank you all for being here. Thank you for the good discussions. And thank you all for all you do for EPEL and it's community.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:58:09

Especially for EPEL10.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:58:16

I'll talk to ya'll next week, if not sooner.

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:58:33

thank you Troy Dawson !

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:58:40

thanks for running things Troy Dawson!

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:58:57

!endmeeting