2024-09-11 18:00:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !startmeeting EPEL (2024-09-11)
2024-09-11 18:00:10 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-09-11 18:00:09 UTC
2024-09-11 18:00:10 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2024-09-11)'
2024-09-11 18:00:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic aloha
2024-09-11 18:00:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !meetingname epel
2024-09-11 18:00:16 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now epel
2024-09-11 18:00:28 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi
2024-09-11 18:00:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
2024-09-11 18:01:22 <@davide:cavalca.name> !hi
2024-09-11 18:01:23 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
2024-09-11 18:01:33 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !hi
2024-09-11 18:01:36 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2024-09-11 18:03:17 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Neil Hanlon Davide Cavalca and Carl George 
2024-09-11 18:03:39 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> morning
2024-09-11 18:03:50 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Morning nirik 
2024-09-11 18:04:01 <@smooge:fedora.im> hello
2024-09-11 18:04:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hello Stephen J Smoogen 
2024-09-11 18:05:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
2024-09-11 18:05:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
2024-09-11 18:05:40 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We're a little light on ticket ... and people as well ... which is actually ok.
2024-09-11 18:05:53 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic EPEL 10
2024-09-11 18:05:53 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://hackmd.io/q6TNkYjJT82EtzhlyPGpog
2024-09-11 18:06:13 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i've got good and bad news
2024-09-11 18:06:41 <@smooge:fedora.im> start with the bad
2024-09-11 18:07:11 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the good news is we got the nightly rawhide-style compose working, separate from bodhi.  now updates are created automatically and move to stable with no interaction, which is what we wanted until the official launch.
2024-09-11 18:07:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> tdawson has already given cookies to carlwgeorge during the F40 timeframe
2024-09-11 18:07:41 <@zodbot:fedora.im> neil has already given cookies to carlwgeorge during the F40 timeframe
2024-09-11 18:07:57 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I have totally enjoyed that.  Thank you, and thanks to everyone who helped get that done.
2024-09-11 18:08:30 <@zodbot:fedora.im> dherrera gave a cookie to carlwgeorge. They now have 67 cookies, 20 of which were obtained in the Fedora 40 release cycle
2024-09-11 18:08:41 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the bad news i just realized last night was that the repo path is slightly different, it has an os directory now.  it seems to be a subtle difference in how the compose-partial-copy tool and the new-updates-sync script (bodhi method) work.  this results in our previously working mirrormanager links no longer working.
2024-09-11 18:09:25 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> when bodhi was doing the compose the epel10 repo looked like epel9 https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/9/Everything/x86_64/
2024-09-11 18:09:35 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> now it's https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/10/Everything/x86_64/os/
2024-09-11 18:10:33 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i'd love for nirik to weigh in on this if he knows a simple solution, but one options is we just ignore this and tell people the repo doesn't work until we switch back to bodhi for the official launch
2024-09-11 18:10:39 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> bummer
2024-09-11 18:10:46 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ohhh ... I just tried ... and yep, I can't get stuff from the mirrors. :*(
2024-09-11 18:11:50 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think we can tweak mirorrmanager... I'd say file a ticket and we can sort it...
2024-09-11 18:12:04 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> or we could sync the sync script to do the other way
2024-09-11 18:12:50 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'd like to get it fixed, which ever is most appropriate, but I think getting it fixed is a good thing.
2024-09-11 18:13:01 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> I can PR a fix for mirrormanager, it's the scan-primary-mirror config here https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/blob/main/f/roles/openshift-apps/mirrormanager/templates/scan-primary-mirror.toml#_16
2024-09-11 18:13:16 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> though that config would affect all epel, not just 10
2024-09-11 18:13:23 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> so need to be careful ;) 
2024-09-11 18:13:43 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> prob should remove modular from there, separately 
2024-09-11 18:13:43 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> and keep in mind this would be a change to mirrormanager just for a few months
2024-09-11 18:14:21 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I'm not sure it's that it's not scanning the new place so much as it already scanned the old one and still has that in it's db.
2024-09-11 18:14:26 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> but I could be wrong. ;)
2024-09-11 18:15:09 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> needs more investigation, but i wanted to let everyone know
2024-09-11 18:15:09 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> could be, but if the paths are different, scan-primary-mirror should insert those and reassociate 
2024-09-11 18:15:21 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> I will file a ticket for it, Carl
2024-09-11 18:15:28 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> thanks
2024-09-11 18:16:12 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the thing is the os won't be a part of the path long term
2024-09-11 18:16:33 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> so do we adjust mirrormanager to also catch the short term path, or fix the path
2024-09-11 18:16:43 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i'm leaning towards the latter, but don't know how hard it will be
2024-09-11 18:17:03 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> yep, i think it's worth considering both options.. so I'll delineate them
2024-09-11 18:17:55 <@zodbot:fedora.im> smooge has already given cookies to carlwgeorge during the F40 timeframe
2024-09-11 18:18:39 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I have to say, although that is bad news ... it's not that bad of news ... I'll take it over the other things that went through my mind.
2024-09-11 18:18:51 <@smooge:fedora.im> me too
2024-09-11 18:18:53 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> hehe
2024-09-11 18:19:07 <@smooge:fedora.im> "I have taken a job with Canonical"
2024-09-11 18:19:26 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the bright side is we haven't advertised the url to anyone yet, so if anyone is disrupted we can say "we never told you to use that url"
2024-09-11 18:19:58 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> although the urls are in the first epel-release for 10 if they found that (also not pointing people at that yet, and no latest link)
2024-09-11 18:20:13 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Correct, and we don't have the "latest" link to epel-release.  So the only people who are using are those that know enough to go to the right place to get epel-release.
2024-09-11 18:20:45 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> literally this morning had someone inside red hat ask me for a link to start consuming epel10, and i said no
2024-09-11 18:21:18 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i can't stop them if they find it, it's not hard to poke around dl.fpo, but if i give them a url that later changes they won't be happy
2024-09-11 18:21:41 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> as they say, nothing more permanent than a temporary fix
2024-09-11 18:22:36 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> that's it for epel10, we can move on
2024-09-11 18:23:03 <@tdawson:fedora.im> As of ... just a few minutes ago, we now have 1470 package tagged into epel10.0
2024-09-11 18:23:40 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We're growing and a good pace.  I'm having to request fewer and fewer packages as I go along.
2024-09-11 18:23:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> OK, but let's move on.
2024-09-11 18:23:59 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Old Business
2024-09-11 18:24:18 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Does anyone have any old Business?
2024-09-11 18:24:30 <@smooge:fedora.im> not me
2024-09-11 18:24:54 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh ... I thought it was you ...
2024-09-11 18:25:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hmm ... not the best zinger ... sorry about that.
2024-09-11 18:25:57 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sounds like no old business ... moving on.
2024-09-11 18:26:07 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic General Issues / Open Floor
2024-09-11 18:26:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Does anyone have anything for the open floor?
2024-09-11 18:26:29 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> quick one here
2024-09-11 18:26:52 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i worked with akashdeep (don't remember his matrix id) to get epel10 working in staging mdapi
2024-09-11 18:26:55 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> https://mdapi.stg.fedoraproject.org/branches
2024-09-11 18:27:15 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i don't know what the timeline is for that to go to production, but it seems to be in good shape now
2024-09-11 18:27:44 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> example https://mdapi.stg.fedoraproject.org/epel10/pkg/tinyproxy
2024-09-11 18:27:52 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sorry ... my emojie's just don't apply where I want them to today.
2024-09-11 18:28:47 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> anyone else for open floor?
2024-09-11 18:28:47 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Very nice.
2024-09-11 18:29:10 <@zodbot:fedora.im> yselkowitz has already given cookies to carlwgeorge during the F40 timeframe
2024-09-11 18:29:20 <@smooge:fedora.im> I liked the graph of packages in EPEL that troy put togeterh
2024-09-11 18:29:29 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> i have somethingish
2024-09-11 18:29:39 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> finding link.. one sec
2024-09-11 18:30:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thanks.  I was seeing how easy/hard it would be to adjust my script for epel10, and as you can see, it was fairly easy.
2024-09-11 18:30:25 <@zodbot:fedora.im> smooge has already given cookies to tdawson during the F40 timeframe
2024-09-11 18:32:14 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> https://github.com/chaos/whatsup/issues/23
2024-09-11 18:32:14 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Someone asked me to update whatsup in EPEL, as there was a bug they're hitting fixed.. but the change is from 1.14 to 1.15, and it's the first release of whatsup since 2015. The maintainer says there's no breaking changes aside from a removed plugin which wasn't working, anyways.
2024-09-11 18:32:14 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> 
2024-09-11 18:32:14 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> My question, given that this isn't supposed to break anything, is whether i need any documentation for updating the package a minor rev like this in epel. 
2024-09-11 18:32:14 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> 
2024-09-11 18:32:41 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2310844
2024-09-11 18:33:18 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> If there's no user visible changes, I would think it would be fine.
2024-09-11 18:33:44 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> it's a judgement call.  the most strict view would be a removal is a breaking change, but it's a grey area if that part already wasn't working.
2024-09-11 18:34:08 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Yeah, that is sorta the angel and devil on my shoulder :) 
2024-09-11 18:34:29 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> i figured it was safer to ask 
2024-09-11 18:34:38 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I guess when in doubt ... send an email ... 
2024-09-11 18:34:46 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> my general rule is to gather all the info i can about the changes, like you did, then do a fresh read of https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/epel/epel-policy/ with the changes in mind
2024-09-11 18:36:45 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Seems sane. I think I will send an email this afternoon then, announcing the intention to update whatsup in epel9 to 1.15, and next week sometime will push a build to bodhi assuming no rebukes
2024-09-11 18:37:13 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> was the epel build shipping the openib plugin that was mentioned?
2024-09-11 18:38:07 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> on x86 and power, i believe it was
2024-09-11 18:38:15 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> but i don't know it worked ever
2024-09-11 18:38:33 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> 
2024-09-11 18:38:33 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> > With the minor exception that the "OpenIB" up/down plugin has been removed b/c that no longer worked on newer versions of OpenIB.
2024-09-11 18:38:33 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i'm suggest digging a little deeper on this statement from the dev
2024-09-11 18:38:50 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> yes, re-reading that it appears it _could_ be working in EPEL...
2024-09-11 18:38:52 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> does "newer versions of openib" even apply to rhel/epel 9?
2024-09-11 18:39:12 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> that's the subtle thing to sort before making said judgement call
2024-09-11 18:40:49 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> alternatively, you could try your hand at backporting the commit in the bug to the existing version
2024-09-11 18:41:29 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Aye, that would work as well. i may do that as a stop-gap for this user, too.. assuming it applies relatively cleanly in and of itself
2024-09-11 18:42:04 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> usually people that say they need a version don't need a version, they need a thing that is in that version
2024-09-11 18:42:15 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> users lie 😀
2024-09-11 18:42:23 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> heh
2024-09-11 18:42:39 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> i think probably the libibcommon thing is not applicable, it looks like we've had the same version of it in fedora for a _while_
2024-09-11 18:42:59 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> - Update to latest upstream version
2024-09-11 18:42:59 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> 	
2024-09-11 18:42:59 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> * Wed Apr 22 2009 Doug Ledford <dledford@redhat.com> - 1.2.0-1
2024-09-11 18:43:40 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> hmm, might want to ask the whatsup dev to clarify the newer version thing he's talking about
2024-09-11 18:43:46 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> yeah, going to 
2024-09-11 18:45:18 <@dherrera:fedora.im> https://github.com/chaos/whatsup/compare/whatsup-1-14-1...whatsup-1-15-1#diff-fedf9da11dba9d3c31f14fa5bb3f59501ff2649c673731938d78edea2b22dd05L76 < there
2024-09-11 18:45:18 <@dherrera:fedora.im> https://github.com/chaos/whatsup/compare/whatsup-1-14-1...whatsup-1-15-1 I was browsing it, and most of the changes seem to be CI/CD, deployment and doc improvements. At most I found a function that changed it's returned a value
2024-09-11 18:46:06 <@dherrera:fedora.im> but I doubt that it is relevant for this kind of utility
2024-09-11 18:46:10 <@dherrera:fedora.im> (hi btw)
2024-09-11 18:46:17 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> hi :) and thanks!
2024-09-11 18:46:39 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Are there any other Open Floor items?
2024-09-11 18:47:23 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> there was the openssl-devel-engine thing, if yselkowitz wants to cover it
2024-09-11 18:47:37 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i filed https://issues.redhat.com/browse/RHEL-58344 to explain the epel impact
2024-09-11 18:48:25 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I saw that, and saw the reply.  Does anyone want to give a summary?
2024-09-11 18:50:28 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i'm in the middle of a stern reply about the support comment being invalid, because epel
2024-09-11 18:50:39 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i'm in the middle of a stern reply comment about the support comment being invalid, because epel
2024-09-11 18:50:54 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> my tl;dr after speaking to clang on irc briefly is ... there's a mix of things. probably many of the packages can be trivially modified to patch out engine support they're not using. but that doesn't really fix EPEL's issues, nor the packages which can't live in the perfect world described
2024-09-11 18:51:12 <@tdawson:fedora.im> To me the summary was three parts.  1) Update your spec files, because you really don't need it.  2) Update you header files because you really don't need it.  3) If you really do need it, fix your code.
2024-09-11 18:51:37 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> in rhel the crypto team can compel rhel maintainers to meet their ideals.  we have no power over volunteer epel maintainers to do the same.
2024-09-11 18:52:14 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> basically epel has to meet reality where it is, not shift it
2024-09-11 18:52:50 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the alternative won't be everyone gets their shit together and stops using engines, it's that they just won't have the package in epel
2024-09-11 18:55:00 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> the perfect compromise: we all lose !
2024-09-11 18:55:50 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> I will try and put some of my thoughts on it together in the ticket. Thanks for filing it Carl
2024-09-11 18:56:35 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We're getting low on time.  Any other quick Open Floor items before we close the meeting?
2024-09-11 18:57:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'll take the silence as "nothing else".
2024-09-11 18:57:59 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you all for being here.  Thank you for the good discussions.  And thank you all for all you do for EPEL and it's community.
2024-09-11 18:58:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Especially for EPEL10.
2024-09-11 18:58:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'll talk to ya'll next week, if not sooner.
2024-09-11 18:58:33 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> thank you Troy Dawson !
2024-09-11 18:58:40 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> thanks for running things Troy Dawson!
2024-09-11 18:58:57 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !endmeeting