15:00:03 <jforbes> #startmeeting FESCO (2018-10-08)
15:00:03 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Oct  8 15:00:03 2018 UTC.
15:00:03 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:00:03 <zodbot> The chair is jforbes. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:03 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2018-10-08)'
15:00:03 <jforbes> #meetingname fesco
15:00:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
15:00:03 <jforbes> #chair nirik, maxamillion, jsmith, jforbes, zbyszek, tyll, sgallagh, contyk, bowlofeggs
15:00:03 <jforbes> #topic init process
15:00:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: bowlofeggs contyk jforbes jsmith maxamillion nirik sgallagh tyll zbyszek
15:00:06 <contyk> o/
15:00:09 <sgallagh> .hello2
15:00:10 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
15:00:21 <contyk> .hello psabata
15:00:22 <zodbot> contyk: psabata 'Petr Šabata' <psabata@redhat.com>
15:00:32 <bowlofeggs> .hello2
15:00:33 <zodbot> bowlofeggs: bowlofeggs 'Randy Barlow' <rbarlow@redhat.com>
15:00:42 <nirik> morning
15:01:29 <maxamillion> .hello2
15:01:30 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
15:02:18 <jforbes> Good, we have quorum
15:03:00 <jforbes> #topic #1974 Problematic blocker for F29: dnf 'offline' module tracking
15:03:00 <jforbes> .fesco 1974
15:03:01 <jforbes> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1974
15:03:03 <zodbot> jforbes: Issue #1974: Problematic blocker for F29: dnf 'offline' module tracking - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1974
15:03:15 <jforbes> The ticket was updated on this one
15:03:53 <contyk> I believe we have some agreement with the DNF regarding what needs to be implemented
15:04:03 <contyk> with the required feature set for GA being pretty minimal
15:04:18 <contyk> but I don't think there have been any technical development since last week
15:04:27 <zbyszek> Hi, sorry for being late.
15:04:29 <contyk> just discussions
15:04:33 <nirik> freeze is tomorrow. ;(
15:04:40 <jforbes> So, it seems to me from the update, we get most of what is needed, with a few finer details to be added post F29
15:04:44 <nirik> or well, 00:00 tonight
15:05:02 <jforbes> contyk: so what is the confidence that this code can be finished reasonably quickly?
15:05:14 <contyk> within the next few hours? zero
15:05:52 <jforbes> Figured that, but do we have a real estimate?
15:06:34 <contyk> I don't have any information on that matter, unfortunately
15:07:24 <nirik> well, we can make this a fesco special blocker and hope...
15:07:44 <zbyszek> Yeah, I don't think we really have much choice
15:07:45 <maxamillion> I don't have a lot of confidence in that plan
15:08:09 <nirik> well, the alternative is shipping what we have...
15:08:14 <jforbes> I mean, it would be important information to have, from a blocker stand point, are we talking about possible to get in and tested this week and not delay the release? Are we looking at 4 weeks of code and a guaranteed delay even if everything works perfectly?
15:08:17 <bowlofeggs> iirc, we did seem to all agree that what we have is not great
15:08:38 <nirik> jforbes: +1
15:08:52 <bowlofeggs> yeah i agree - we don't have enough info to make a decision about this still
15:08:57 <jforbes> And what would be the risk of dnf as a 0 day update?
15:09:02 <bowlofeggs> and last week we deferred because we wanted more info haha
15:09:12 <bowlofeggs> well we did get more, but did not get the critical thing (an estimate0
15:09:48 <jforbes> bowlofeggs: the current agreement is progress, but yeah, an estimate is critical
15:10:02 <jforbes> Is there anyone who could provide such an estimate?
15:10:09 <sgallagh> Well, what difference does it make, honestly?
15:10:27 <bowlofeggs> sgallagh: the difference might be whether we ship what we have or mark this bug a blocker?
15:10:29 <sgallagh> The current status is unsafe to ship with and reverting is likely more risky than fixing this bug.
15:10:33 <contyk> jforbes: the dnf folks could but they aren't around atm
15:10:49 <sgallagh> Our job is determining what constitutes being worth blocking on
15:10:57 <jforbes> sgallagh: how much risk would the fix being a 0 day update be?
15:10:58 <bowlofeggs> sgallagh: yeah i guess it's a bit unsafe, though i wouldn't call it highly unsafe
15:11:31 <bowlofeggs> most users aren't going to enable updates-testing repos unless they know a little bit about what they are doing (i don't claim they know a lot, but more than a pure GUI user would)
15:12:10 <jforbes> bowlofeggs: unless someone tells them to test a fix for something from updates-testing and they copy/paste commands from IRC
15:12:16 <bowlofeggs> sgallagh: not knowing an estimate, do you advocate for holding the release for this bug even if it's a long time?
15:12:31 <bowlofeggs> jforbes: true
15:12:57 <bowlofeggs> though the pure GUI user probably won't find IRC either (maybe someone on a forum would tell them that though)
15:13:35 <bowlofeggs> yeah it's not great if we ship what we have, that's for sure
15:13:35 <jforbes> "We believe a basic variant of this feature could be implemented for F29 GA" is the closest thing to an actual estimate in the bz update
15:14:08 <nirik> actually gnome-software shows you repos now and lets you disable/enable them...
15:14:24 <bowlofeggs> one option we have is to say this blocks, but also leave the door open to change our minds later?
15:14:29 <sgallagh> bowlofeggs: I had to think about it a bit, but yes. I guess I am advocating for that, yes.
15:14:44 <jforbes> sgallagh: what about the 0 day update option?
15:14:44 <bowlofeggs> nirik: oh wow - so the GUI lets you enable testing repos? i didn't notice that
15:14:52 <contyk> if you install modular content and then decide to "disable modularity", as some people do, you will face the same problem
15:14:57 <zbyszek> bowlofeggs: +1
15:15:01 <bowlofeggs> nirik: heh, so it does
15:15:05 <bowlofeggs> that's kinda neat actually
15:15:12 <bowlofeggs> well that does make this more important
15:15:16 <sgallagh> jforbes: I'm mostly concerned because once you get yourself into a bad state, it can't be fixed with an update.
15:15:18 <bowlofeggs> there's a pointy-clicky way to end up in trouble
15:15:27 <sgallagh> You need to do manual fiddly things to get back to the right place
15:15:41 <jforbes> sgallagh: fair.
15:16:16 <nirik> proposal: file fesco special final blocker on this, try and get more estimate input from dnf team
15:16:21 <jforbes> Okay, given the information we have, since I don't see us getting any more information today, we we ready to vote on the blocker status?
15:16:34 <sgallagh> nirik: +1 blocker
15:16:34 <bowlofeggs> nirik: +1
15:16:38 <zbyszek> nirik: +1 blocker
15:16:41 <nirik> +1 blocker I fear
15:16:45 <jforbes> nirik: +1
15:16:46 <contyk> I can take an action to pester them in person tomorrow
15:16:50 <zbyszek> jforbes: I don't think we gain anything by waiting.
15:16:53 <contyk> +1 to blocker
15:17:00 <bowlofeggs> +1 to pestering from contyk ☺
15:17:12 <nirik> contyk: +1
15:17:22 * contyk takes a note
15:18:19 <jforbes> maxamillion ?
15:18:24 <contyk> I don't think the MVP should take too long, it feels pretty trivial
15:18:29 <maxamillion> +1
15:18:31 <contyk> but we'll see what the estimate is
15:18:50 <jforbes> #agreed file fesco special final blocker on this, try and get more estimate input from dnf team (+7,0,-0)
15:18:53 <maxamillion> I don't like any of this but I'm not really sure I have a better option ... :/
15:19:05 <jforbes> #topic Next week's chair
15:19:14 <nirik> who shall file the blocker? I guess I can if no one else wants to...
15:19:42 <zbyszek> #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_29_Beta_Release_Criteria#FESCo_blocker_bugs
15:19:50 <jforbes> I can file the blocker
15:20:05 <jforbes> #action jforbes will file the blocker
15:20:28 <jforbes> any takers for next week's chair?
15:20:37 <contyk> sure
15:20:42 <contyk> can do
15:21:08 <zbyszek> Is it just a matter of marking 1616167 as blocking F29BetaBlocker ?
15:21:11 <jforbes> #action contyk will chair next meeting
15:21:27 <jforbes> #topic Open Floor
15:21:38 <nirik> zbyszek: yeah, that would work
15:21:45 * bowlofeggs looks to the right
15:21:48 * bowlofeggs looks to the left
15:21:52 <bowlofeggs> wow, it's so open in here
15:21:58 <zbyszek> look under your feet
15:22:03 <zbyszek> (for the crickets)
15:22:04 <maxamillion> here I am ... stuck in the middle with you
15:22:12 <maxamillion> :D
15:22:24 * sgallagh looks down and sees open air. He falls like Wile E. Coyote into the abyss
15:22:52 <bowlofeggs> haha
15:23:10 <bowlofeggs> sgallagh: that was neat how you held up the sign that said "help" and blinked twice before falling
15:23:12 <jforbes> I only said the floor was open, the walls are solid, this is a 6x6 cell
15:23:17 <zbyszek> Hm, not F29BetaBlocker, F29FinalBlocker instead?
15:23:17 <bowlofeggs> hahaha
15:23:44 <contyk> yes, that
15:24:11 <jforbes> Actually, it is already a FinalBlocker, so I will just comment in it
15:24:30 <jforbes> Last call for open floor, going to close out in 1 minute
15:26:01 <jforbes> #endmeeting