15:04:25 <decathorpe> #startmeeting FESCO (2020-12-16)
15:04:25 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec 16 15:04:25 2020 UTC.
15:04:25 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:04:25 <zodbot> The chair is decathorpe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:04:25 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:04:25 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2020-12-16)'
15:04:33 <decathorpe> #meetingname fesco
15:04:33 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
15:04:46 <decathorpe> #chair nirik, ignatenkobrain, decathorpe, zbyszek, sgallagh, mhroncok, dcantrell, cverna, Conan_Kudo, Pharaoh_Atem, Son_Goku, King_InuYasha, Sir_Gallantmon, Eighth_Doctor
15:04:46 <zodbot> Current chairs: Conan_Kudo Eighth_Doctor King_InuYasha Pharaoh_Atem Sir_Gallantmon Son_Goku cverna dcantrell decathorpe ignatenkobrain mhroncok nirik sgallagh zbyszek
15:04:49 <decathorpe> #topic init process
15:05:03 <zbyszek> .hello2
15:05:03 * nirik is bleary eyed, but here. :)
15:05:03 <zodbot> zbyszek: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' <zbyszek@in.waw.pl>
15:05:05 <zbyszek> Sorry I'm late.
15:05:22 <decathorpe> nobody is late yet ;)
15:05:47 <King_InuYasha> hey all
15:05:53 <King_InuYasha> .hello ngompa
15:05:54 <zodbot> King_InuYasha: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
15:06:01 <decathorpe> good morning / evening
15:06:10 <sgallagh> .hello2
15:06:11 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
15:06:16 <zbyszek> While we're waiting: King_InuYasha how are the packaging fixes for pipewire going?
15:06:32 <King_InuYasha> going through them in Rawhide today
15:06:44 <King_InuYasha> I just got the presets in fedora-release in last night's compose
15:06:45 * nirik tried pipewire in rawhide the other day, it was... not functional for me. ;(
15:08:04 <decathorpe> well, a quorum is present, should we start?
15:09:15 <zbyszek> Please.
15:09:27 <decathorpe> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/IEZWN2D3FZNZJIS432I3TKDWVGEZD7SW/ Schedule
15:09:57 <decathorpe> #topic #2519 F34 Change: GitRepos-master-to-main
15:10:06 <decathorpe> .fesco 2519
15:10:07 <zodbot> decathorpe: Issue #2519: F34 Change: GitRepos-master-to-main - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2519
15:10:27 <sgallagh> Starting with an easy one!
15:10:32 <sgallagh> <.<
15:10:32 <nirik> :)
15:10:33 <sgallagh> >.>
15:10:42 <decathorpe> It's also the only one. So there was no choice
15:10:45 <zbyszek> C'mon, we're in violent agreement here!
15:10:46 <nirik> ha.
15:10:47 <sgallagh> heh
15:10:57 <sgallagh> zbyszek: Well, violent at least!
15:11:06 <nirik> you have only one choice... :)
15:11:24 <zbyszek> Well, we all agree on the need to rebuild the bike shed, but can't agree on the color.
15:11:27 <King_InuYasha> >_>
15:11:52 <decathorpe> Most seem to favor having the branch name be "rawhide", and having a symref "main" -> "rawhide" is fine, but having a symref from "master" is not. Is this a fair summary?
15:11:57 <nirik> It seems most logical to me to just symref main and rawhide... what problem does that cause for folks?
15:12:14 <King_InuYasha> decathorpe: seems like it
15:12:24 <nirik> yeah.
15:12:30 <zbyszek> decathorpe: that's what I think so too. It also matches mhroncok's summary.
15:12:51 <sgallagh> nirik: I can foresee a future where we could potentially have a collision between the meaning of `main` from two disparate sources.
15:13:03 <nirik> I'm not sure it's very visible on a symref which is the branch and which is a symref...
15:13:06 <sgallagh> However, it's not a hill I care to die on
15:13:22 <decathorpe> sgallagh: Well, if that future comes, we can always delete the old "main" symref?
15:13:32 <sgallagh> Can we?
15:14:02 <nirik> sure, but if people have that checked out they will need to switch branch or reclone.
15:14:11 <sgallagh> The problem with having the symref is that consumers will rely on it, which means we'll have to maintain it or break them.
15:14:19 <nirik> sgallagh: what about the future where we rename rawhide?
15:14:29 <decathorpe> Same as it is with "master" now, isn't it?
15:14:35 <nirik> decathorpe: yep.
15:14:42 <sgallagh> Still less likely to conflict with industry standards.
15:14:43 <decathorpe> Then I don't see the problem.
15:15:05 <sgallagh> decathorpe: Yes, it's no *worse* than today. But as we have an opportunity to fix it as part of this, it seems like an opportune time
15:15:28 * nirik isn't clear on what you are fixing.
15:15:37 <sgallagh> As I said, I don't plan to die on this hill, so if everyone else is fine with just ignoring it, let's move on
15:15:41 <decathorpe> sgallagh: so you're only objecting to the "main" -> "rawhide" symref?
15:15:47 <sgallagh> right
15:16:02 <King_InuYasha> the only hill I'm going to die on is using anything other than "rawhide" to replace "master"
15:16:13 <King_InuYasha> everything else, I'm less strong on
15:16:15 <nirik> I think thats important to have around because all the other places are moving to that... may be scripts or the like people have that assume it... and I don't see the harm
15:16:32 <decathorpe> I propose to split this into three parts, and vote on them separately. Objections?
15:17:20 <nirik> sure I guess. I don't think more discussion is going to help probobibly.
15:17:50 <sgallagh> I've said my piece. Since no one else seems to agree, I withdraw it.
15:18:00 <sgallagh> Feel free to just make the singular proposal
15:18:22 <decathorpe> Okay, here goes.
15:18:35 * nirik notes he may have to adjust the times in the change now some. But that should be minor.
15:18:50 <sgallagh> The times?
15:19:05 <decathorpe> Proposal: Approve proposal to rename branch names from "master" to "main" except in dist-git-like repositories with branches matching fedora releases, where "rawhide" is preferred.
15:19:09 <nirik> the dates. I expected this to go to fesco last week.
15:19:26 <nirik> Phase0 - 2020-12-14 (2 days ago), etc.
15:19:32 <sgallagh> ack
15:19:39 <zbyszek> lgtm
15:19:43 <decathorpe> Where the new default branch will be "rawhide", create symbolic refs from "main" to "rawhide".
15:19:45 <nirik> +1 here (but I am biased )
15:20:01 <sgallagh> decathorpe: That's all part of the same proposal?
15:20:14 <decathorpe> sgallagh: I am not fast enough with typing :)
15:20:16 <sgallagh> (Just confirming)
15:20:18 <decathorpe> so yes
15:20:25 <sgallagh> +1
15:20:36 <King_InuYasha> decathorpe: +1
15:20:46 <decathorpe> I am +1 as well
15:21:18 <decathorpe> zbyszek?
15:21:22 <zbyszek> I'm ±0 on the symlink. +1 to the main change.
15:21:45 <decathorpe> I'll count that as 0 then.
15:22:22 <decathorpe> mhroncok's vote in the ticket should count as +1, unless I misread something?
15:22:40 <zbyszek> decathorpe: yes, mhroncok was +1
15:23:25 <decathorpe> I'm counting (+5, 1, -0). are we in agreement?
15:23:48 <zbyszek> decathorpe: hmm, is that for the Proposal above?
15:24:23 <King_InuYasha> yes
15:24:31 <decathorpe> It just didn't fit into one message.
15:24:53 <decathorpe> zbyszek: should I count you as +1 overall then?
15:24:59 <zbyszek> Then please count me as +1. I only said that I'm lukewarm on the detail of making the symbolic link from "main" to "rawhide".
15:25:13 <decathorpe> okay, thank you for clarifying. then we are at (+6, 0, -0)?
15:25:38 <decathorpe> I will also paste the text of my proposal into the ticket for reference.
15:26:47 * nirik will teak the dates and add branch names decision from here in.
15:27:45 <sgallagh> nirik++
15:27:45 <zodbot> sgallagh: Karma for kevin changed to 18 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:27:51 <decathorpe> #agree APPROVED (+6, 0, -0)
15:27:56 <decathorpe> See, that wasn't so bad :-)
15:28:38 <zbyszek> nirik++, bcotton++, pingou++, mboddu++ thank you for driving this change.
15:28:38 <zodbot> zbyszek: Karma for mohanboddu changed to 9 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:29:39 <decathorpe> any other comments for this topic?
15:29:49 <zbyszek> till++ too obviously
15:29:49 <zodbot> zbyszek: Karma for till changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:30:45 <decathorpe> moving on.
15:30:53 <decathorpe> #topic Next Week's Chair
15:31:07 <sgallagh> I will not be around next week'
15:31:26 * nirik definitely will not be around the next 2 weeks. ;)
15:31:31 <decathorpe> I'd rather not be as well. FESCo meeting isn't a good birthday present ;)
15:32:02 <sgallagh> decathorpe: Congratulations on another solar circumnavigation!
15:32:19 <decathorpe> well, not yet, but thank you :)
15:32:42 <zbyszek> So, meet on the 6th?
15:32:54 <sgallagh> zbyszek: +1
15:32:57 <decathorpe> zbyszek: that's what I was about to suggest as well.
15:33:19 <nirik> +1
15:33:35 <decathorpe> Any volunteers for the first meeting in 2021?
15:33:43 <zbyszek> decathorpe: I can do it.
15:34:11 <decathorpe> thanks!
15:34:28 <decathorpe> #action zbyszek to chair next meeting (on Jan. 06, 2021)
15:34:42 <decathorpe> #topic Open Floor
15:35:20 <defolos> can I throw in .fesco2522 into the fray?
15:35:30 <zbyszek> .fesco 2522
15:35:31 <zodbot> zbyszek: Issue #2522: Nonresponsive maintainer: Sergey Avseyev avsej - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2522
15:36:04 <zbyszek> defolos: I think we can just vote in the ticket.
15:36:08 <decathorpe> defolos: I saw the ticket, but it wasn't even a day old, so I didn't see a need to hurry. Is there anything you'd like us to do?
15:36:37 <defolos> ah, I am not really familiar with the procedure
15:36:54 <defolos> just wanted to move it forward before the chrstimas break so that I can finally update bear
15:38:06 <defolos> if that can happen in the ticket, then I'm more than fine with that
15:38:22 <zbyszek> defolos: Do you want to become comaintainer?
15:39:08 <defolos> zbyszek: actually no, I don't. But if that's the only way how to update the package, then I'll do it.
15:40:30 <zbyszek> The problem is that if there's just one maintainer, and we drop the maintainer as nonresponsive, we'll eventually retire the package.
15:40:37 <zbyszek> So if you could pick it up, that'd be great.
15:40:50 <decathorpe> Assuming nobody votes against it, you will get co-maintainer access early, so you can fix the problem. Then the package will be orphaned later, which is the next problem :)
15:40:58 <zbyszek> I see avsej hasn't committed to the package in 11 months...
15:41:05 <defolos> as I said, I'll do what must be done…
15:41:09 <defolos> maybe limb will help me
15:42:25 <decathorpe> yeah. can you comment on the ticket that you want co-maintainer access so you can fix issues early?
15:42:35 <decathorpe> the orphan problem can be solved in a few weeks.
15:43:25 <defolos> done
15:43:32 <defolos> thanks ya all!
15:43:34 <decathorpe> thanks!
15:43:50 <decathorpe> if there's nothing else, I'll give you 15 minutes of your lives back.
15:44:19 <defolos> 🎉
15:45:34 <decathorpe> Alright. Happy Holidays, and stay safe, everyone. See you next year!
15:45:37 <decathorpe> #endmeeting