2024-09-03 17:02:28 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !startmeeting FESCO (2024-09-03)
2024-09-03 17:02:31 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-09-03 17:02:28 UTC
2024-09-03 17:02:31 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'FESCO (2024-09-03)'
2024-09-03 17:02:35 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !meetingname fesco
2024-09-03 17:02:36 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now fesco
2024-09-03 17:02:49 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Chairs: @conan_kudo:matrix.org, @ngompa:fedora.im, @nirik:matrix.scrye.com, @humaton:fedora.im, @zbyszek:fedora.im, @sgallagh:fedora.im, @jistone:fedora.im, @dcantrell:fedora.im, @decathorpe:fedora.im, @salimma:fedora.im
2024-09-03 17:03:21 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !topic Init Process
2024-09-03 17:03:29 <@humaton:fedora.im> !hi
2024-09-03 17:03:30 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Tomáš Hrčka (humaton) - he / him / his
2024-09-03 17:03:34 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-09-03 17:03:35 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> !hi
2024-09-03 17:03:36 <@zodbot:fedora.im> David Cantrell (dcantrell) - he / him / his
2024-09-03 17:03:37 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-09-03 17:03:51 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> morning
2024-09-03 17:04:02 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !hi
2024-09-03 17:04:03 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh) - he / him / his
2024-09-03 17:04:42 <@jistone:fedora.im> !hi
2024-09-03 17:04:43 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Josh Stone (jistone) - he / him / his
2024-09-03 17:05:33 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2024-09-03 17:05:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2024-09-03 17:06:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> okay that looks like we have plenty of people to start this
2024-09-03 17:07:45 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> We have one topic really, and hopefully it'll be quick.
2024-09-03 17:07:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !topic #3264 Incomplete Changes Report for Fedora Linux 41
2024-09-03 17:07:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !fesco 3264
2024-09-03 17:08:01 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** a week ago by amoloney
2024-09-03 17:08:01 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** an hour ago
2024-09-03 17:08:01 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3264** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3264):**Incomplete Changes Report for Fedora Linux 41**
2024-09-03 17:08:01 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2024-09-03 17:08:01 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
2024-09-03 17:08:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> There are two Changes I could identify we needed to follow up on...
2024-09-03 17:09:15 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !topic Taskwarrior 3
2024-09-03 17:09:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Taskwarrior3
2024-09-03 17:09:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> This is by Ankur Sinha (FranciscoD@fedora) (he/him/his) 
2024-09-03 17:10:38 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Do we have any new news on it?
2024-09-03 17:10:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> looking at the status update posted earlier this morning, it seems that things are moving now
2024-09-03 17:11:01 <@jistone:fedora.im> the bz comment today: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2304175#c1
2024-09-03 17:11:12 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Yeh, I provided an update on the bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2304175. It's a matter of getting the new rust deps reviewed and packaged
2024-09-03 17:11:53 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Everything other than the final `task` package builds fine in COPR. Just working on that last one now: https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/ankursinha/taskwarrior3/monitor/ 
2024-09-03 17:11:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm reasonably comfortable with this going on through to final freeze, I don't think anyone ships taskwarrior on any media
2024-09-03 17:12:04 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Yeh, I provided an update on the bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show\_bug.cgi?id=2304175. It's a matter of getting the new rust deps reviewed and built
2024-09-03 17:12:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> obviously sooner the better :)
2024-09-03 17:12:22 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Since this is a self contained, sure, I'd say we give it more time...
2024-09-03 17:13:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> same. do we need to vote?
2024-09-03 17:13:30 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Proposal: permit this to land whenever, but it's deferred as a Change if it lands after Final Freeze
2024-09-03 17:13:35 <@salimma:fedora.im> +1
2024-09-03 17:13:36 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1
2024-09-03 17:13:41 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> +1
2024-09-03 17:13:42 <@humaton:fedora.im> +1
2024-09-03 17:13:49 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> +1
2024-09-03 17:13:56 <@jistone:fedora.im> +1
2024-09-03 17:15:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> proposed !agreed This is in progress and on-track. As it is self-contained, FESCo permits this to land whenever, but it is deferred as a Change if it lands after Final Freeze.
2024-09-03 17:15:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> proposed !agreed This is in progress and on-track. As it is self-contained, FESCo permits this to land whenever, but it is deferred as a Change if it lands after Final Freeze. (+7, 0, -0)
2024-09-03 17:16:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> proposed !agreed This is in progress and on-track. As it is self-contained and not on any deliverable media, FESCo permits this to land whenever, but it is deferred as a Change if it lands after Final Freeze. (+7, 0, -0)
2024-09-03 17:16:25 <@jistone:fedora.im> (leading "proposed" getting in the way? also I don't think the logs capture edits, do they?)
2024-09-03 17:16:54 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: We don't usually do that in FESCo meetings, but sure: Ack.
2024-09-03 17:16:55 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> blech, I'm mixing up processes because two parallel meetings
2024-09-03 17:17:05 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !agreed This is in progress and on-track. As it is self-contained and not on any deliverable media, FESCo permits this to land whenever, but it is deferred as a Change if it lands after Final Freeze. (+7, 0, -0)
2024-09-03 17:17:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !topic Switch to dnf5
2024-09-03 17:17:50 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SwitchToDnf5
2024-09-03 17:18:11 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Was this just a matter of an inconsistent tracker ticket?
2024-09-03 17:18:22 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> no that was the anaconda ones
2024-09-03 17:18:47 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think we wanted them to update the change with whats actually done/implemented. Or at least thats what I wanted. ;)
2024-09-03 17:18:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah
2024-09-03 17:18:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> there have been no status updates at all
2024-09-03 17:19:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> ordinarily we'd yank a change for that, but... stuff happened, we just don't know the scope of it
2024-09-03 17:20:00 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Did we actually ask them for updates? perhaps we could ask more ?
2024-09-03 17:20:37 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> (might be folks are on pto or something too)
2024-09-03 17:20:44 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I think we forgot to assign someone to reach out.
2024-09-03 17:20:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> oops?
2024-09-03 17:21:28 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I think that may have been something I should have done, but by the end of that meeting I needed a nap
2024-09-03 17:22:03 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, lets try and reach out more? you want to do that now Stephen Gallagher? or would you prefer someone else?
2024-09-03 17:22:15 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I guess I can try if needed...
2024-09-03 17:22:49 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Jaroslav Mracek
2024-09-03 17:22:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> he's the team lead for DNF
2024-09-03 17:22:59 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> no
2024-09-03 17:23:03 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> dnf is my team
2024-09-03 17:23:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> oh
2024-09-03 17:23:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> well then
2024-09-03 17:23:11 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> in case anyone was wondering
2024-09-03 17:23:14 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> congrats?
2024-09-03 17:23:28 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> like 3 years too late, but that's ok
2024-09-03 17:23:39 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> now I know to bug you about things :P
2024-09-03 17:23:43 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> cool. Could you ask for them to update the change then ? probibly be easier for you than others...
2024-09-03 17:23:45 <@jistone:fedora.im> sounds like we've reached out now :)
2024-09-03 17:23:58 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> yes, I will ask
2024-09-03 17:24:09 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> I always wondered why no one asked me in meetings about dnf or rpm stuff
2024-09-03 17:24:14 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> even when I'd say that's the team I work on
2024-09-03 17:24:20 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> it's like no one was listening to me
2024-09-03 17:24:23 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> ever
2024-09-03 17:24:35 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Sometimes it's like we can still hear him...
2024-09-03 17:24:39 <@jistone:fedora.im> maybe now we will overcorrect on that
2024-09-03 17:24:59 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> all dnf bugs to dcantrell! :)
2024-09-03 17:25:36 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm sorry dcantrell, I didn't know. 😦
2024-09-03 17:25:58 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, it never clicked for me either... sorry.
2024-09-03 17:26:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> My excuse is that I don't have live updates to the redhat engineering org chart :)
2024-09-03 17:26:56 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> OK, shall we move on?
2024-09-03 17:27:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah, one tick
2024-09-03 17:27:21 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !action dcantrell will follow up with the DNF team on getting a status update. We will revisit this next week.
2024-09-03 17:27:25 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !action dcantrell to ask the DNF team to update the Change tracker with the latest status
2024-09-03 17:27:37 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Whoops, sorry for stepping on your toes.
2024-09-03 17:27:42 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> no problem
2024-09-03 17:27:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's fine
2024-09-03 17:27:59 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> OK, David will just have to ask twice :)
2024-09-03 17:28:04 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> with that, we're done with this topic, so...
2024-09-03 17:28:09 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !topic Next week's chair
2024-09-03 17:28:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I can't do it, I'm going to Akademy :)
2024-09-03 17:28:32 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> oh, this is what those Rust dependencies are for? if I'd known it was for a Change, I'd have prioritized reviewing them ...
2024-09-03 17:28:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh, would we even have quorum then?
2024-09-03 17:29:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we might not
2024-09-03 17:29:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> I see three people are out already which leaves us at max 6
2024-09-03 17:29:13 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> if 4 of us are gone, that gets dicey
2024-09-03 17:29:26 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'll be around, but I just ran it last week.
2024-09-03 17:29:37 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'll take it if no one else can, but not happily.
2024-09-03 17:29:50 <@salimma:fedora.im> for completeness I'm out the next Tue for Plumbers (conf starts Wed but I'll have my team offsite)
2024-09-03 17:30:23 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> I would offer to take it next week but I have a hard stop at 2pm and we are not consistent on meeting end times
2024-09-03 17:30:35 <@humaton:fedora.im> I can take it
2024-09-03 17:30:39 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> dcantrell: 2pm always or just this occasion?
2024-09-03 17:30:43 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> I can take next week 
2024-09-03 17:30:59 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> jinx :) 
2024-09-03 17:31:00 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Thanks Fabio Valentini 
2024-09-03 17:31:08 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Oh, and jednorozec  :)
2024-09-03 17:31:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so... who wants the chair?
2024-09-03 17:31:29 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> it's every other week for me
2024-09-03 17:31:36 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> ack
2024-09-03 17:32:35 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> it's been a while since I chaired a meeting ... so it would be my "turn" but if jednorozec wants to do it next week I'll take it the week after 
2024-09-03 17:32:55 <@humaton:fedora.im> Fabio Valentini: feel free to take it
2024-09-03 17:33:10 <@humaton:fedora.im> I was off line for the past 3 weeks so...
2024-09-03 17:33:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !action Fabio Valentini will chair the next meeting
2024-09-03 17:33:42 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !topic Open Floor
2024-09-03 17:33:47 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I have two topics for Open Floor and I think Michel Lind 🎩 had one as well.
2024-09-03 17:34:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> yup
2024-09-03 17:34:28 <@salimma:fedora.im> should we do something for https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3265 ?
2024-09-03 17:34:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> I suspect this might be one of Stephen Gallagher 's topics anyway
2024-09-03 17:35:15 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Nope
2024-09-03 17:35:56 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> It would be nice to be clear what we want there...
2024-09-03 17:36:00 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> if we want a new change, etc.
2024-09-03 17:36:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I think we want a new Change
2024-09-03 17:36:40 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'd prefer a new Change
2024-09-03 17:36:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah
2024-09-03 17:37:03 <@jistone:fedora.im> IMO a Change is advisable, but not *required*
2024-09-03 17:37:04 <@humaton:fedora.im> change would be ideal
2024-09-03 17:37:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> especially as infrastructure changes, requirements to do this stuff change too
2024-09-03 17:37:36 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so having review for it, similar to what we do for retired packages, makes sense
2024-09-03 17:37:40 <@salimma:fedora.im> I guess nobody *requires* a new change, just prefer them. maybe we can vote and then tell them the decision then say it's up to them if they still want to reenable without a CP?
2024-09-03 17:38:37 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> well, I don't think this has happened before
2024-09-03 17:39:02 <@salimma:fedora.im> glad I brought it up then :P
2024-09-03 17:39:20 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I lean much more toward we should treat it the same as we do retired packages and require a new change and review
2024-09-03 17:39:36 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Yeah, that's my perspective as well
2024-09-03 17:39:54 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> +1 for new Change Proposal
2024-09-03 17:40:49 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Proposal: Resuming generation of retired deliverables requires a new Change. For the Phosh request, FESCo would like them to make a Change for Fedora 42 to restart production of the images.
2024-09-03 17:41:01 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> +1
2024-09-03 17:41:02 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> sure, seems reasonable
2024-09-03 17:41:07 <@jistone:fedora.im> +1
2024-09-03 17:41:10 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> +1
2024-09-03 17:41:14 <@humaton:fedora.im> +1
2024-09-03 17:41:45 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Fabio Valentini, Michel Lind 🎩: ?
2024-09-03 17:41:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> +1
2024-09-03 17:43:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm going to count Fabio Valentini's earlier +1 for this since I just formally worded what he assented to
2024-09-03 17:43:30 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> +1
2024-09-03 17:44:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !agreed Resuming generation of retired deliverables requires a new Change. For the Phosh request, FESCo would like them to make a Change for Fedora 42 to restart production of the images. (+8, 0, -0)
2024-09-03 17:44:27 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> oh oof
2024-09-03 17:44:35 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> forgot to topic this
2024-09-03 17:44:41 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I have items, but my doorbell just rang.  BRB
2024-09-03 17:45:03 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i know one of stephen's items is a potential stuck blocker for f41, will wait for conan to be done with bureaucracy
2024-09-03 17:45:04 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !info The above agreed statement is for a request by the Mobility SIG to restart production of Phosh images.
2024-09-03 17:45:17 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3265
2024-09-03 17:46:09 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> alright, now we wait for Stephen :)
2024-09-03 17:46:45 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> OK, sorry about that.
2024-09-03 17:47:02 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> adamw is correct, there are two potential blocker issues I wanted to bring up.
2024-09-03 17:47:10 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> One he agrees with, one he doesn't :)
2024-09-03 17:47:45 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'll start with the one Adam disagrees with, because I'm petty like that. (And it should be quick)
2024-09-03 17:48:25 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !fesco 3266
2024-09-03 17:48:26 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3266** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3266):**Fedora 41 Beta Blocker: require the updates-testing repository to be active**
2024-09-03 17:48:26 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
2024-09-03 17:48:26 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** an hour ago
2024-09-03 17:48:26 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** 5 hours ago by sgallagh
2024-09-03 17:48:26 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2024-09-03 17:49:28 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> The issue is already approved as an FE, but I raised it as a blocker because I wanted to establish FESCo precedent.
2024-09-03 17:50:35 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> This has been Fedora policy as far back as I can remember and I feel like changing it without consideration should be treated as a blocker.
2024-09-03 17:50:43 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i think the commit from f40 branching was copied for f41 branching, and we had the same mistake there
2024-09-03 17:50:56 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I recognize that the point is bureaucratic at this point, since it's already getting fixed.
2024-09-03 17:51:10 <@adamwill:fedora.im> if you look at f40 history there was 6406e5571fc88424e4c15df18995714b65846deb (initial branch) then b0be9579a9b45a44bc2e30fbd7d5ef4a268f05a2 (you turned on u-t)
2024-09-03 17:51:34 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i just don't think it needs the urgency of fesco jumping in and declaring there must be a criterion and so on
2024-09-03 17:51:35 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> But I don't think we should ship install media where this is wrong, if for no other reason than (I think?) it would impact netinst media.
2024-09-03 17:51:47 <@adamwill:fedora.im> it can go through the normal process, it's fine. i don't think we really need a criterion but i'm willing to be convinced.
2024-09-03 17:52:17 <@adamwill:fedora.im> hum, so, for f40 we accepted this as a blocker by a back door
2024-09-03 17:52:19 <@adamwill:fedora.im> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2266096
2024-09-03 17:52:24 <@adamwill:fedora.im> "The bug hinders execution of required Beta test plans or dramatically reduces test coverage".
2024-09-03 17:52:30 <@adamwill:fedora.im> yay consistency!
2024-09-03 17:53:05 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah, so rather than backdooring the blocker, we should just declare it as such
2024-09-03 17:53:13 <@adamwill:fedora.im> ah, that was a meeting where i was away, which is why i don't remember it
2024-09-03 17:53:14 <@adamwill:fedora.im> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/blocker-review_matrix_fedoraproject-org/2024-02-26/f40-blocker-review.2024-02-26-17.01.log.html
2024-09-03 17:53:33 <@jistone:fedora.im> is this generally considered a Beta criterion?
2024-09-03 17:53:44 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Josh Stone: It's not a criterion, it's a tradition.
2024-09-03 17:53:51 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> technically this is supposed to be part of branching
2024-09-03 17:53:53 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> That's why it's not a clear blocking issue.
2024-09-03 17:53:54 <@jistone:fedora.im> then should we make it so now and forever (not just F41)
2024-09-03 17:54:09 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but it didn't happen correctly twice in a row, which is why we're having this discussion now
2024-09-03 17:54:19 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i think we can discuss whether to add a criterion in the normal way: propose it on test@ (and discourse, i guess)
2024-09-03 17:54:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> we don't generally have FESCo Declaring that things must be release criteria, and I don't think the current situation is urgent enough to require it
2024-09-03 17:54:44 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Right, but for now I want to have us declare it a blocker so that failure to include the fix blocks the release.
2024-09-03 17:55:06 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> (So accidental exclusion or incompletely fixing it would force a respin)
2024-09-03 17:55:17 <@adamwill:fedora.im> well, we're going to fix it in like half an hour anyway, but sure, i won't object.
2024-09-03 17:55:45 <@adamwill:fedora.im> also, we need to tell releng to be careful about just copying commits from release to release because then you copy mistakes
2024-09-03 17:55:52 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i've seen this pattern multiple times
2024-09-03 17:55:56 <@adamwill:fedora.im> you need to look for follow-up commits
2024-09-03 17:56:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> so... we can vote I guess, but let the quality team decide how to improve procedures to make sure the f42 process goes better?
2024-09-03 17:56:29 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> adamw: So not only are they copying mistaken commits, but also copying the act of making that mistake? Where will it end!?
2024-09-03 17:56:42 <@adamwill:fedora.im> =)
2024-09-03 17:56:56 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I agree we should do better, but... I don't see how discussing it here does much for that. :)
2024-09-03 17:57:05 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i should also probably write a test for this...anyhow
2024-09-03 17:57:18 <@adamwill:fedora.im> nirik: if you're aware of it, my purpose has been achieved!
2024-09-03 17:57:23 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Anyhow, the FESCo ticket is at +6, so it just needs one +1 and no -1's to pass FastTrack
2024-09-03 17:57:36 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, I already asked jnsamyak about it a while ago.
2024-09-03 17:57:39 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> (For treating it as a blocking issue)
2024-09-03 17:58:09 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ sure, I can vote +1 if we can move on. ;)
2024-09-03 17:58:13 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> We can finish the vote in the ticket and move on
2024-09-03 17:58:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> The second issue I'll let adamw explain, as he understands it better. Something to do with graphics rendering.
2024-09-03 18:00:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> adamw: That was your cue...
2024-09-03 18:00:41 <@adamwill:fedora.im> oh, sorry
2024-09-03 18:00:48 <@adamwill:fedora.im> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2282171
2024-09-03 18:01:31 <@adamwill:fedora.im> this is an accepted blocker. the issue is that resizing windows on Raspberry PI can cause the app to just crash (including maximizing them). there were other issues previously but AIUI those are now resolved.
2024-09-03 18:03:01 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I talked to Matthias Clasen this morning in the Workstation WG meeting... he seemed to be under the impression he was waiting on something from you to move things along
2024-09-03 18:03:13 <@adamwill:fedora.im> the remaining issue seems to be kinda being passed around between mesa and gtk upstreams and nobody seems to want to commit to fixing it. it's either a bug in gtk when used with the vulkan driver from mesa that's used on pi(?) or a bug in the vulkan renderer. the fix is either to fix the driver in mesa, fix the mesa vulkan renderer to work with that driver's behaviour, or change something somewhere so we use a different gtk renderer (gl or ngl) on the pi.
2024-09-03 18:03:31 <@adamwill:fedora.im> do you know what he was waiting on?
2024-09-03 18:03:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> no, he didn't say
2024-09-03 18:04:06 <@adamwill:fedora.im> anyway, i wanted to at least let fesco know this is going on and it's a risk for the release so you can consider appropriate action, if we waited another week we'd be quite tight on the early release target
2024-09-03 18:04:33 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> adamw: Is there a particular course of action that you want to recommend?
2024-09-03 18:04:54 <@adamwill:fedora.im> the only course of action i want to recommend is that somebody commit to fixing the damn thing
2024-09-03 18:05:02 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> 😆
2024-09-03 18:05:13 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Denied. Alternative suggestions? ;-)
2024-09-03 18:05:14 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Yeh, thats them. No worries, i got to them quite late but we should get them all in soon enough :)
2024-09-03 18:05:21 <@adamwill:fedora.im> the upstream issues have gotten kinda confused, fzatlouk is going to file a new upstream gtk issue that clearly explains the remaining problem today
2024-09-03 18:05:34 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> will a mesa issue also get filed?
2024-09-03 18:05:38 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> or does one already exist?
2024-09-03 18:05:51 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher: yak farm
2024-09-03 18:06:01 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: not sure. i'll ask franta.
2024-09-03 18:07:37 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> given that all of our render bugs this cycle are rpi related, I'm starting to wonder if we need some udev rules to just tell everything to chill out on the rpi
2024-09-03 18:10:45 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> OK, so we have a blocker here with no clear way forward, yes?
2024-09-03 18:11:25 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Our options as I seem them are:
2024-09-03 18:11:25 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> 1) Wait and see if someone fixes them
2024-09-03 18:11:25 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> 2) Declare GUI on RPi4[00] non-blocking
2024-09-03 18:11:38 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> 3. ???
2024-09-03 18:12:04 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> 2. Declare GUI on RPi4\[00\] non-blocking
2024-09-03 18:12:04 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Our options as I see them are:
2024-09-03 18:12:04 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> 
2024-09-03 18:12:04 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> 1. Wait and see if someone fixes them
2024-09-03 18:12:22 <@adamwill:fedora.im> 3) help me be annoying to people until they get sick of it and implement 1)
2024-09-03 18:12:45 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm happy to do (3) wherever I can
2024-09-03 18:12:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> at least one of the rpi bugs was fixed that way :)
2024-09-03 18:13:55 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> unfortunately I don't know anyone at the Raspberry Pi Foundation's engineering team... do you? :)
2024-09-03 18:14:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> hmm, I guess I could also ask if someone at SUSE has hit this, since they do most of the RPI upstream work
2024-09-03 18:15:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but SLE for ARM isn't supported with graphics on the RPi...
2024-09-03 18:15:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but if it's the vulkan driver, then that's mostly mesa, so a mesa bug would be helpful to go bug people about it
2024-09-03 18:15:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> they might know who to talk to anyway
2024-09-03 18:16:04 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah
2024-09-03 18:16:07 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I can certainly ask for that
2024-09-03 18:16:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> I guess the tricky thing is we move much faster than upstream, huh. but all the more reason we ideally have a PoC inside RPi upstream
2024-09-03 18:16:54 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we need to rekindle a relationship with them, yes
2024-09-03 18:17:11 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> maybe I'll go talk to the Ultramarine folks about it, they have a relationship with them now
2024-09-03 18:18:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> should we make that a meeting action? for posterity
2024-09-03 18:18:28 <@salimma:fedora.im> since when the notes are posted hopefully someone in the mailing list might be able to help
2024-09-03 18:20:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah
2024-09-03 18:21:47 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !info The Raspberry Pi platform makes up the bulk of our blocker bugs this cycle. The most significant issues are graphics oriented with GTK4 and v3dv not working well together. František Zatloukal is working on filing bug reports with gtk and mesa on this.
2024-09-03 18:22:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !action Conan Kudo will try to help adamw find people to look into and assist fixing the various bugs discovered this cycle.
2024-09-03 18:23:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I think that's it?
2024-09-03 18:23:32 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Nothing more from me
2024-09-03 18:25:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I've got nothing.
2024-09-03 18:25:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Does anyone else have anything?
2024-09-03 18:25:28 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> An empty ☕ cup. :) so no...
2024-09-03 18:26:55 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Then, I guess it's time to end it all...
2024-09-03 18:26:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !endmeeting