2025-02-04 17:00:50 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !startmeeting FESCO (2025-02-04)
2025-02-04 17:00:52 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-02-04 17:00:50 UTC
2025-02-04 17:00:52 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'FESCO (2025-02-04)'
2025-02-04 17:01:05 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !meetingname fesco
2025-02-04 17:01:05 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Chairs: @conan_kudo:matrix.org, @ngompa:fedora.im, @nirik:matrix.scrye.com, @humaton:fedora.im, @zbyszek:fedora.im, @sgallagh:fedora.im, @fale:fale.io, @dcantrell:fedora.im, @decathorpe:fedora.im, @salimma:fedora.im
2025-02-04 17:01:05 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !topic Init Process
2025-02-04 17:01:05 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now fesco
2025-02-04 17:01:11 <@fale:fale.io> !hi
2025-02-04 17:01:14 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Fabio Alessandro Locati (fale) - he / him / his
2025-02-04 17:01:26 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> who all fesco folks are around? we may not have quorum today due to people traveling from fosdem, etc.
2025-02-04 17:02:04 <@humaton:fedora.im> !hi
2025-02-04 17:02:05 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Tomáš Hrčka (humaton) - he / him / his
2025-02-04 17:02:56 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, thats 3... :) will wait a few more...
2025-02-04 17:02:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2025-02-04 17:03:01 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2025-02-04 17:03:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm kind of here, but I'm not counting on being able to stay.
2025-02-04 17:03:54 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm probably going to lose in flight Wi-Fi soon as I'm close to the end of my flight.
2025-02-04 17:04:01 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> !hi
2025-02-04 17:04:02 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Fabio Valentini (decathorpe) - he / him / his
2025-02-04 17:04:36 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I'm joining, ahem, lurking from sunny Seville :)
2025-02-04 17:04:57 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> left Brussels yesterday, but Brussels has not left me yet 🤧
2025-02-04 17:05:11 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Thats 5... at least for a few?
2025-02-04 17:05:20 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> should we go on, or just call it for this week?
2025-02-04 17:05:44 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> is there something urgent?
2025-02-04 17:06:18 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> there's two items...
2025-02-04 17:06:20 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> #3356 Change: Switch to EROFS for Live Media
2025-02-04 17:06:24 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> │#3358 Change: Deprecate Zezere Provisioning Server (IoT)
2025-02-04 17:06:31 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I don't think either are super urgent
2025-02-04 17:06:46 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !hi
2025-02-04 17:06:47 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh) - he / him / his
2025-02-04 17:07:03 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Sorry for being late
2025-02-04 17:07:17 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> ok, lets move forward then ?
2025-02-04 17:07:37 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !topic #3356 Change: Switch to EROFS for Live Media
2025-02-04 17:07:44 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !fesco 3356
2025-02-04 17:07:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** 15 hours ago
2025-02-04 17:07:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3356** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3356):**Change: Switch to EROFS for Live Media**
2025-02-04 17:07:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2025-02-04 17:07:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** ngompa
2025-02-04 17:07:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** a week ago by amoloney
2025-02-04 17:08:09 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> zbyszek was -1 in ticket... but is not here today...
2025-02-04 17:08:15 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> ha. ;)
2025-02-04 17:08:22 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> so, we could just defer this one to next week?
2025-02-04 17:09:17 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !info will defer to next meeting
2025-02-04 17:09:22 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !topic #3358 Change: Deprecate Zezere Provisioning Server (IoT)
2025-02-04 17:09:27 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !fesco 3358
2025-02-04 17:09:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2025-02-04 17:09:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** 15 hours ago
2025-02-04 17:09:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** pwhalen
2025-02-04 17:09:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** a week ago by amoloney
2025-02-04 17:09:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3358** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3358):**Change: Deprecate Zezere Provisioning Server (IoT)**
2025-02-04 17:09:49 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> This change is confusing to me.
2025-02-04 17:09:50 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Stephen Gallagher was -1 to this one.
2025-02-04 17:10:32 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'm not really happy about removing what is basically the only reasonable headless install mechanism without a replacement.
2025-02-04 17:10:42 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> There's a lot of different ways to install...
2025-02-04 17:10:47 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> But if they're not going to maintain it anyway, keeping it around is probably not great either.
2025-02-04 17:11:07 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, Ignition or the Fedora ARM installer script should work for headless installs no?
2025-02-04 17:11:14 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> nirik: If it's headless, your choice is Zezere or an extremely complicated and largely undocumented FDO setup
2025-02-04 17:11:58 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> nirik: I can't speak for Ignition, but fedora-arm-installer will need a display to use the firstboot app
2025-02-04 17:12:05 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Ignition is very painful to use for remote bare metal deploys 
2025-02-04 17:12:11 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> pwhalen (ping in case you happen to be around for this discussion)
2025-02-04 17:12:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I still shiver over doing OKD deployments because of how complex it is to get the FCOS nodes up 
2025-02-04 17:13:05 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> From a practical perspective, I recognize that the team doesn't want to maintain Zezere and so it's going to bit-rot. I just want to be on record as not being happy about it.
2025-02-04 17:13:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Inflicting that on FIoT would not be awesome 
2025-02-04 17:13:59 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> There is very little new-user documentation available for IoT and Zezere is the minimum-effort approach we have to try it out right now
2025-02-04 17:14:14 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, I guess the thing that would be nice to come out of this is a better headless install story/documentation... ?
2025-02-04 17:14:34 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Or at least an equivalent one
2025-02-04 17:15:44 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> so, shall we vote on this? or do we want to discuss more with change owners?
2025-02-04 17:16:23 <@fale:fale.io> on the change or the proposal to ask for a better headless install story?
2025-02-04 17:17:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm about to lose Wi-Fi service so I will be dropping now.
2025-02-04 17:17:33 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Conan Kudo: safe travels!
2025-02-04 17:17:48 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Should there be explicit buy-in from iot if it's going to affect them the most?
2025-02-04 17:17:55 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Thanks
2025-02-04 17:18:30 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> keep in mind that we can't force people to do things... ;) we can reject changes (but in this case it would mean a unmaintained service keeps running) we can ask politely for changes...
2025-02-04 17:18:30 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Aoife Moloney: I don't understand the question. Buy-in for what?
2025-02-04 17:19:34 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> proposal: approve change, but note that we would really like a better headless install/story if at all possible
2025-02-04 17:20:01 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Sorry, to rephrase: would it be better for you (fesco) to accept or the change with a condition (or request) that fedora iot is engaged with the change? 
2025-02-04 17:20:21 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> the change is actually from iot folks. ;)
2025-02-04 17:20:48 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Ha sorry I'll stay in my lane so :D
2025-02-04 17:21:07 <@humaton:fedora.im> I am just afraid when approved, we will end-up without a way to provision IoT 42  and universe will collapse
2025-02-04 17:21:13 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> although perhaps thats not very clear from the change itself
2025-02-04 17:23:37 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> jednorozec well, or we can provision, but the service starts being insecure/bad.
2025-02-04 17:23:47 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> so, no great answer without another way
2025-02-04 17:23:59 <@humaton:fedora.im> yup
2025-02-04 17:24:32 <@fale:fale.io> also, at least in certain cases, zezere lays around, so it would be way suboptimal to have such a service insecure
2025-02-04 17:25:18 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I dont see much alternatve right now to just approving the change... but we could wait and discuss more with change owners if there's another way
2025-02-04 17:25:36 <@humaton:fedora.im> Approve and note about the story?
2025-02-04 17:25:49 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, that was my proposal...
2025-02-04 17:25:56 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> proposal: approve change, but note that we would really like a better headless install/story if at all possible
2025-02-04 17:26:36 <@fale:fale.io> I'm +1
2025-02-04 17:28:00 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> With Neal gone, we don't have quorum to pass this if I vote -1, do we?
2025-02-04 17:28:57 <@fale:fale.io> Neal was "tentatively +1" in the ticket
2025-02-04 17:29:53 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> nope. ;)
2025-02-04 17:29:55 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I guess I'll hold my nose and vote +1, then.
2025-02-04 17:30:07 <@humaton:fedora.im> +1
2025-02-04 17:30:30 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I know that this would pass if we had more of a quorum, so a protest vote won't change the outcome.
2025-02-04 17:31:11 <@humaton:fedora.im> but I am concerned about the IoT provisioning story 
2025-02-04 17:31:13 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> so thats +5 with the 'tenatively +1' from the ticket?
2025-02-04 17:32:11 <@fale:fale.io> Not sure if we still have Fabio Valentini  around
2025-02-04 17:33:36 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !agreed change approved, but note that we would really like a better headless install/story if at all possible (+5,0,0)
2025-02-04 17:34:14 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !topic Next week's chair
2025-02-04 17:34:21 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> who wants it?
2025-02-04 17:34:53 <@humaton:fedora.im> I can
2025-02-04 17:36:32 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !action jednorozec will chair next meeting
2025-02-04 17:36:36 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Thanks
2025-02-04 17:36:42 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !topic Open Floor
2025-02-04 17:38:27 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> anything for open floor?
2025-02-04 17:38:31 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> if not will close in a min
2025-02-04 17:39:48 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> ok, thanks everyone!
2025-02-04 17:39:50 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !endmeeting