2024-05-13 07:00:36 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !startmeeting i18n
2024-05-13 07:00:38 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-05-13 07:00:36 UTC
2024-05-13 07:00:39 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'i18n'
2024-05-13 07:00:50 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !meetingname i18n
!topic agenda and roll call
!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2024-05-13

2024-05-13 07:00:52 <@sshil:fedora.im> Hello
2024-05-13 07:01:20 <@fujiwarat:matrix.org> hi
2024-05-13 07:01:37 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Parag is away. I'll take the chair today.
2024-05-13 07:01:45 <@mfabian:matrix.org> Hi
2024-05-13 07:01:47 <@pwu:fedora.im> Hi
2024-05-13 07:02:15 <@kanru:wara.tw> hi
2024-05-13 07:02:34 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !meetingname i18n
2024-05-13 07:03:33 <@juhp:matrix.org> hi
2024-05-13 07:03:50 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Let's get started.
2024-05-13 07:03:53 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !topic Issues
2024-05-13 07:04:07 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !info #158: State of i18n and l10n in Workstation (petersen)
2024-05-13 07:04:11 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/158
2024-05-13 07:04:34 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Jens Petersen: Do you have any updates?
2024-05-13 07:05:27 <@juhp:matrix.org> Short answer is no... when should we look at it?
2024-05-13 07:06:49 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Is there any new tickets for this in WG?
2024-05-13 07:07:05 <@juhp:matrix.org> There are quite a lot of issue listed there, so maybe we need to prioritise and review them
2024-05-13 07:07:11 <@juhp:matrix.org> No
2024-05-13 07:07:56 <@juhp:matrix.org> I dunno if it makes sense to create i18n tickets for all of them (well maybe a subset)
2024-05-13 07:08:44 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Sure. it may be a good idea
2024-05-13 07:08:50 <@juhp:matrix.org> Okay
2024-05-13 07:09:08 <@juhp:matrix.org> Let me try to do it before the next meeting
2024-05-13 07:09:22 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Thanks!
2024-05-13 07:10:13 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Alright. let's move on.
2024-05-13 07:10:28 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !info #162: track Fonts component bugs (petersen)
2024-05-13 07:10:30 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/162
2024-05-13 07:11:12 <@tagoh:matrix.org> I don't think we have any bugs we need to discuss around this.
2024-05-13 07:11:31 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !info #183: Fedora 38 Bug triaging (pnemade)
2024-05-13 07:11:34 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/183
2024-05-13 07:12:10 <@tagoh:matrix.org> As of today, we still have 21 bugs open for f38.
2024-05-13 07:12:41 <@juhp:matrix.org> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2122022 (ax86-terminus-ttf-fonts) could proceed?
2024-05-13 07:13:44 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Okay. will take a look later.
2024-05-13 07:13:55 <@kanru:wara.tw> Does this list become f39 or f40 tracker at some point?
2024-05-13 07:15:04 <@pwu:fedora.im> I think there is some terminus-fonts package...
2024-05-13 07:15:30 <@tagoh:matrix.org> I think we will open another ticket when f38 is EOL'd and next target of EOL will be f39.
2024-05-13 07:17:19 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Please find some time to take a look at f38 bugs. otherwise they will be unfortunately auto-closed by 21st of May.
2024-05-13 07:17:44 <@pwu:fedora.im> Is the ax86-terminus-ttf-fonts package related with the terminus-fonts package?
2024-05-13 07:18:29 <@tagoh:matrix.org> pwu: Please check the upstream url.
2024-05-13 07:19:03 <@pwu:fedora.im> tagoh: Okay
2024-05-13 07:20:17 <@tagoh:matrix.org>  Anything we want to highlight on f38 bugs?
2024-05-13 07:21:30 <@juhp:matrix.org> Do we think https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2178174 is still reproducible (flatpak ibus indicator)?
2024-05-13 07:24:00 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Hm, no, I can't. it looks good at the moment.
2024-05-13 07:24:13 <@juhp:matrix.org> Aha
2024-05-13 07:24:43 <@juhp:matrix.org> pwu: maybe libreoffice bugs can be bumped?
2024-05-13 07:24:55 <@juhp:matrix.org> tagoh: then can close it I guess :)
2024-05-13 07:25:35 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Jens Petersen: Yep. I did just now. thanks.
2024-05-13 07:25:42 <@juhp:matrix.org> Just a reminder to all, please also triage the bugs you had reported there
2024-05-13 07:25:59 <@pwu:fedora.im> Jens Petersen: Maybe the libreoffice bugs are fixed in upstream.
2024-05-13 07:26:09 <@juhp:matrix.org> aha
2024-05-13 07:26:33 <@juhp:matrix.org> Basically we should either move or close the bugs ahead of EOL
2024-05-13 07:27:06 <@juhp:matrix.org> It might be okay to let ABRT bugs to autoclose, but again they should really be looked over since they may contain useful info
2024-05-13 07:27:06 <@pwu:fedora.im> I prefer to close the libreoffice as EOL.
2024-05-13 07:27:33 <@pwu:fedora.im> I prefer to close the libreoffice bugs as EOL.
2024-05-13 07:27:34 <@juhp:matrix.org> That is actually worse than saying fixed upstream
2024-05-13 07:28:11 <@tagoh:matrix.org> I think it would be good to add some comments even if you want to move it to upstream.
2024-05-13 07:28:50 <@pwu:fedora.im> Okay, maybe I will close it after the meeting...
2024-05-13 07:29:48 <@juhp:matrix.org> The important thing is to close the loop on these bugs, not to fix them now in f38
2024-05-13 07:30:08 <@pwu:fedora.im> I prefer to close the libreoffice bugs as EOL.
2024-05-13 07:31:30 <@pwu:fedora.im> For the libreoffice bugs.
2024-05-13 07:33:36 <@juhp:matrix.org> fujiwara: is there any open upstream issue for vte surrounding text?
2024-05-13 07:35:06 <@tagoh:matrix.org> most of f38 bugs are reported through abrt. maybe hard to reproduce I guess... let's check with the reporter if not yet. if not sure, maybe good to try bump if it is not yet. otherwise maybe close them as currentrelease ?
2024-05-13 07:40:19 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Let's move on to the next topic.
2024-05-13 07:40:37 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/183
2024-05-13 07:40:39 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !info #185: Evaluate if we can have ibus-chewing as default IME for Taiwan (pwu)
2024-05-13 07:41:08 <@juhp:matrix.org> Kan-Ru Chen:)
2024-05-13 07:41:09 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/185
2024-05-13 07:41:13 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Oops, wrong link
2024-05-13 07:41:45 <@kanru:wara.tw> I created the Change draft here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/IBusChewingForZhTW 
2024-05-13 07:42:02 <@kanru:wara.tw> I think I'll mark it as ready for Wrangler after meeting
2024-05-13 07:42:51 <@juhp:matrix.org> Kan-Ru Chen: sounds good to me anyway
2024-05-13 07:43:14 <@pwu:fedora.im> Kan-Ru Chen: How to try the new ibus-chewing package?
2024-05-13 07:43:21 <@fujiwarat:matrix.org> There were many bugs of vte and closed. Currently I have https://gitlab.gnome.org/fujiwarat/vte/-/merge_requests/1
2024-05-13 07:43:43 <@juhp:matrix.org> fujiwara: aha
2024-05-13 07:44:49 <@kanru:wara.tw> pwu: rawhide has ibus-chewing 2.0.0 and https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/kanru/libchewing-git/ has the upcoming libchewing 0.8 release
2024-05-13 07:45:21 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Kan-Ru Chen: maybe good to add it to the proposal page? 
2024-05-13 07:45:22 <@pwu:fedora.im> Kan-Ru Chen: Thanks!
2024-05-13 07:45:48 <@juhp:matrix.org> Kan-Ru Chen: when do you plan to decide the final version for F41 btw?  Maybe depends on upstream progress?
2024-05-13 07:47:03 <@kanru:wara.tw> yeah, it will depends on upstream progress. If no serious bugs were reported then new feature development will pick-up sooner.
2024-05-13 07:47:14 <@juhp:matrix.org> Dunno if there are any more considerations for users migrating from ibus-libzhuyin in terms of usage?
2024-05-13 07:47:43 <@juhp:matrix.org> Kan-Ru Chen: would be good to decide on the final version in the Change later
2024-05-13 07:48:42 <@juhp:matrix.org> (I don't mean "forced migration", more just in adoption or "getting used" to ibus-chewing)
2024-05-13 07:48:54 <@kanru:wara.tw> I'll clarify in the change.
2024-05-13 07:49:03 <@juhp:matrix.org> Cool thanks
2024-05-13 07:50:15 <@juhp:matrix.org> Anyway thanks for putting it all together, you can tweak make tweaks after submitting, but I think it is ready enough
2024-05-13 07:50:30 <@juhp:matrix.org> Anyway thanks for putting it all together, you can _still_ make tweaks after submitting, but I think it is ready enough
2024-05-13 07:50:41 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Is there anything else we want to *evaluate* to accomplish this Change?
2024-05-13 07:52:24 <@juhp:matrix.org> I think fujiwara suggested to refresh the old QA:Chewing testcase
2024-05-13 07:53:39 <@juhp:matrix.org> From here I think it is really up to fedora user/community feedback and our testday etc
2024-05-13 07:53:40 <@fujiwarat:matrix.org> Commented old bugzila issue of vte.
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/vte/-/issues/2065#note_1551816
2024-05-13 07:54:01 <@tagoh:matrix.org> As we have separate test case for engines, yeah, if we have updated test case for ibus-chewing that would be nice.
2024-05-13 07:54:07 <@juhp:matrix.org> fujiwara: thanks
2024-05-13 07:56:08 <@juhp:matrix.org> Kan-Ru Chen: one more small suggestion you could add a link to the i18n pagure ticket - that way it is clear the the Fedora i18n is aware of the Change
2024-05-13 07:56:20 <@juhp:matrix.org> Kan-Ru Chen: one more small suggestion you could add a link to the i18n pagure ticket - that way it is clear that Fedora i18n is aware of the Change
2024-05-13 07:56:49 <@kanru:wara.tw> Sure thing.
2024-05-13 07:58:05 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Cool, anything else to discuss about this ticket?
2024-05-13 07:59:00 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Let's move on if not.
2024-05-13 07:59:10 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !info #186: CJK relative font priorities (petersen)
2024-05-13 07:59:11 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/186
2024-05-13 08:00:20 <@juhp:matrix.org> Kan-Ru Chen: actually I added the pagure link now under #Feedback but feel free to edit of course
2024-05-13 08:01:38 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Jens Petersen: So do you want to say something about it?
2024-05-13 08:01:44 <@juhp:matrix.org> ah
2024-05-13 08:02:28 <@juhp:matrix.org> Well yes and no I guess... wondering what could be done
2024-05-13 08:04:18 <@tagoh:matrix.org> that sounds like a Qt issue though.
2024-05-13 08:04:19 <@kanru:wara.tw> It looks like it needs Desktop environment support. As I also primarily use LC_ALL=en_US I found the same thing annoying. Maybe that could be an install/boot time option but changing it would need config change.
2024-05-13 08:04:46 <@juhp:matrix.org> Yeah I agree
2024-05-13 08:05:33 <@juhp:matrix.org> It is probably hard to get perfect solution but at least for GNOME/Gtk perhaps as a start
2024-05-13 08:05:53 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Well, there are some limitation to deal with non-rich text on en locale. there are no way to determine what those glyphs are supposed to be. there are some envvar to manage it but not in UI. 
2024-05-13 08:06:25 <@juhp:matrix.org> Right, so that is the topic here one can say
2024-05-13 08:06:40 <@juhp:matrix.org> What kind if UI could be possible
2024-05-13 08:06:45 <@juhp:matrix.org> What kind of UI could be possible
2024-05-13 08:06:53 <@tagoh:matrix.org> That may be non-rich text specific issue right.
2024-05-13 08:07:39 <@juhp:matrix.org> Can you say about on "non-rich text" ?
2024-05-13 08:07:44 <@juhp:matrix.org> Can you say more about on "non-rich text" ?
2024-05-13 08:08:00 <@tagoh:matrix.org> like something on a plain text editor
2024-05-13 08:08:05 <@juhp:matrix.org> Ah no lang markup right
2024-05-13 08:08:10 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Yes
2024-05-13 08:08:16 <@juhp:matrix.org> Right right
2024-05-13 08:08:47 <@juhp:matrix.org> So is pango the right place to handle this?
2024-05-13 08:09:30 <@pwu:fedora.im> There is some PANGO_LANGUAGE environment variable.
2024-05-13 08:09:32 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Yes and no? actually Pango has something but it won't work if application doesn't give anything.
2024-05-13 08:10:37 <@tagoh:matrix.org> more likely an application issue. e.g. if we want to make it better on gnome-text-editor, we need something in gnome-text-editor.
2024-05-13 08:10:57 <@juhp:matrix.org> Maybe some gsettings variant of PANGO_LANGUAGE?
2024-05-13 08:11:52 <@juhp:matrix.org> Hmm dunno if dynamically handling is realistic though
2024-05-13 08:12:44 <@juhp:matrix.org> The most primitive thing would be to set PANGO_LANGUAGE in the Language/Region pane
2024-05-13 08:12:51 <@tagoh:matrix.org> dunno. if we want to do something with gsettings, we need to modify gtk?
2024-05-13 08:13:03 <@juhp:matrix.org> Maybe
2024-05-13 08:13:25 <@juhp:matrix.org> Language changes need restart again, hehe
2024-05-13 08:13:34 <@juhp:matrix.org> Language changes need restart away, hehe
2024-05-13 08:14:37 <@juhp:matrix.org> Dunno if there is some GNOMEy place to keep the envvar
2024-05-13 08:15:01 <@tagoh:matrix.org> and maybe pango too; I don't think PANGO_LANGUAGE related things are implemented as API
2024-05-13 08:15:15 <@juhp:matrix.org> Right
2024-05-13 08:15:26 <@juhp:matrix.org> Maybe we need to talk to the GNOME people
2024-05-13 08:15:37 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Right
2024-05-13 08:15:49 <@juhp:matrix.org> Most apps don't like changing fonts anyway I feel
2024-05-13 08:16:46 <@juhp:matrix.org> Alternatively in Fedora we could try to setup PANGO_LANGUAGE early on, possibly hmm - like Kan-Ru Chen also suggested
2024-05-13 08:17:28 <@juhp:matrix.org> But getting to wider solution firefox would have to look at the envvar - I assume it doesn't??
2024-05-13 08:17:51 <@juhp:matrix.org> Not much idea about Qt
2024-05-13 08:17:54 <@tagoh:matrix.org> But how? it may be a sort of user's interaction. it can't be done automatically because we can't rely on current locale. otherwise it should works without it.
2024-05-13 08:18:35 <@juhp:matrix.org> Well maybe some advanced setting in anaconda or gnome-initial-setup/gnome-control-center
2024-05-13 08:19:27 <@juhp:matrix.org> Well a simple PoC would be to make a config tool to generate the PANGO_LANGUAGE=...
2024-05-13 08:20:15 <@kanru:wara.tw> Like "Preferred glyph variant for CJK unified ideographs"
2024-05-13 08:20:26 <@juhp:matrix.org> Yea
2024-05-13 08:21:26 <@tagoh:matrix.org> We need a workaround like that for Qt.
2024-05-13 08:21:58 <@juhp:matrix.org> Yes that would be good
2024-05-13 08:22:45 <@tagoh:matrix.org> spending a lot of time on the meeting, let's keep a discussion. not yet sure what should be the next step for this though.
2024-05-13 08:23:06 <@juhp:matrix.org> sure
2024-05-13 08:23:19 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !topic Open Floor
2024-05-13 08:23:35 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Anything else we want to discuss in this meeting?
2024-05-13 08:25:12 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Alright. let's stop here then.
2024-05-13 08:25:31 <@tagoh:matrix.org> Thanks everyone for the long meeting!
2024-05-13 08:25:37 <@tagoh:matrix.org> !endmeeting