16:30:56 <riecatnor> #startmeeting Mindshare
16:30:56 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 17 16:30:56 2021 UTC.
16:30:56 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
16:30:56 <zodbot> The chair is riecatnor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:30:56 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:30:56 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare'
16:30:56 <riecatnor> #meetingname Mindshare
16:30:56 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare'
16:30:56 <riecatnor> #chair bt0dotninja codeblock tyll hhlp nb pbokoc riecatnor x3mboy tatica siddharthvipul1 duffy mizmo
16:30:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: bt0dotninja codeblock duffy hhlp mizmo nb pbokoc riecatnor siddharthvipul1 tatica tyll x3mboy
16:30:56 <riecatnor> #info About Mindshare: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare/
16:30:56 <riecatnor> #topic Hello
16:31:06 <mizmo> 👋
16:31:08 <nb> .hi
16:31:12 <mizmo> .hello duffy
16:31:24 <zodbot> nb: nb 'Nick Bebout' <nick@bebout.net>
16:31:27 <zodbot> mizmo: duffy 'Máirín Duffy' <fedora@linuxgrrl.com>
16:31:59 <riecatnor> .hello riecatnor
16:32:02 <zodbot> riecatnor: riecatnor 'Marie Nordin' <mnordin@redhat.com>
16:32:15 <riecatnor> hey mizmo nb!
16:32:17 <pbokoc> .hi
16:32:18 <zodbot> pbokoc: pbokoc 'None' <pbokoc@redhat.com>
16:32:42 <siddharthvipul> .hello siddharthvipul1
16:32:48 <zodbot> siddharthvipul: siddharthvipul1 'Vipul Siddharth' <siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>
16:32:51 <riecatnor> heya pbokoc siddharthvipul !! lots o peeps today
16:33:21 <siddharthvipul> riecatnor, it's an hour early today :D still 10pm but hey, more doable
16:33:29 <siddharthvipul> plus I am already in a meeting so up and active :D
16:34:16 <riecatnor> #topic announcements and information
16:34:31 <riecatnor> nice siddharthvipul :D glad the time change made things better for you, not worse
16:34:43 <riecatnor> #info fedora Diversity & inclusion team is having a meetup this weekend
16:34:46 <siddharthvipul> riecatnor, haha, that's just once a year :D
16:34:49 <riecatnor> #link https://hopin.com/events/fedora-diversity-inclusion-team-meetup
16:35:29 <riecatnor> if anyone knows of folks who are interested in getting involved in the d&i team, feel free to pass the link along
16:35:59 <tyll_> .hello till
16:36:00 <zodbot> tyll_: till 'Till Maas' <opensource@till.name>
16:36:04 <bt0> hi
16:36:05 <riecatnor> heya tyll_ !
16:36:08 <riecatnor> hi bt0
16:36:30 <bt0> .hello bt0dotninja
16:36:31 <zodbot> bt0: bt0dotninja 'Alberto Rodriguez Sanchez' <hotgalan@gmail.com>
16:36:40 <riecatnor> #info the new Fedora logo is here!
16:36:43 <riecatnor> #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHE3bgDo5Xg&t=3s
16:36:58 <riecatnor> any other announcements?
16:37:32 <tyll_> riecatnor: is the schedule for the D&I meetup in local time?
16:37:38 <nb> mizmo WRT the new logo - are we ok to go ahead and make the new logo live?
16:37:52 <nb> like the logo i've been working on for the social media icons?
16:38:32 <mizmo> <nb "mizmo WRT the new logo - are we "> for social media i was hoping for a coordinated launch right around release day for f34
16:38:32 <nb> Or is there a certain date that we are going to try to release things on/around?
16:38:39 <nb> mizmo ok, sounds good
16:38:40 <siddharthvipul> tyll_, D&I meet is from 1300 UTC ro 1900 UTC
16:38:41 <riecatnor> tyll_, it starts at 1PM utc, I am not sure what the website is showing you
16:39:25 <siddharthvipul> tyll_, oh on hopin, I think it's EDT (UTC-4)
16:39:32 <tyll_> riecatnor: thx, then it is local time (it just says 2:00PM here)
16:39:47 <siddharthvipul> nice
16:40:02 <riecatnor> cool!
16:40:35 <riecatnor> #topic tickets
16:40:37 <riecatnor> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/254
16:41:11 <riecatnor> tyll_, I see you commented.. how was your experience with the work adventure site?
16:41:34 <osezer> .fas thunderbirdtr
16:41:35 <zodbot> osezer: thunderbirdtr 'Onuralp SEZER' <thunderbirdtr@gmail.com>
16:41:37 <osezer> hello o/
16:41:47 <riecatnor> (I just jumped into the demo)
16:42:35 <riecatnor> heya osezer
16:43:11 <tyll_> riecatnor: I did not try work adventure myself but for last years Christmas party we used a similar, proprietary service which was quite nice
16:43:35 <tyll_> riecatnor: I heard from someone who was at the virtual CCC event and liked it, too
16:44:22 <riecatnor> gotcha, I also found this from the online town: https://gather.town/
16:44:29 <tyll_> riecatnor: the framkework makes it possible to just stumble upon people
16:44:38 <x3mboy> I'm here
16:44:39 <tyll_> riecatnor: yes, gather.town is what we used for the xmas party
16:44:41 <x3mboy> .hi
16:44:43 <zodbot> x3mboy: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' <eduardlucena@gmail.com>
16:44:57 <riecatnor> tyll, ahh, cool! We tried something like this at one of the social hours and really enjoyed it
16:45:16 <riecatnor> Would it make sense to set this up as a dedicated session, or just as the "hallway track", or both
16:46:14 <tyll> riecatnor: as far as I understand, workadventure could be used as the main entry point for the conference and then different areas would represent the different tracks
16:46:37 <riecatnor> so the entirety of the conference is done on this platform?
16:46:42 <riecatnor> or event
16:46:42 <tyll> riecatnor: at the xmas party we had different huts for activities like baking, storytelling  etc
16:48:21 <tyll> riecatnor: yes, I believe it provides everything that is needed or would allow to reference external ressources
16:48:45 <riecatnor> I am hesitant to use this as the only platform, and not hopin as well. Mainly bc it is myself and a couple others who will do the set up, and we are well versed in HopIn at this point. I am definitely open to trying this at an event, but I think it would be good to introduce it as a part of the event versus the whole event? Also Hopin provides us with a ton of data, analytics, reports, recordings, etc
16:49:51 <riecatnor> I am wondering what these offer in that regard, I guess I need to look into the different services further
16:50:39 <mizmo> i tried gather once but basically just walked up to people, talked, and didnt move around
16:51:32 <riecatnor> mizmo, did you find it better than the hopin experience?
16:51:35 <tyll> riecatnor: I think the fun from using work adventure etc comes from people having to move through the map to join sessions to make spontaneuous encounters possible
16:52:25 <mizmo> <riecatnor "mizmo, did you find it better th"> id have to play with it more. i was afraid to walk away from the conversation that there wouldnt be any other convos to listen in / join in on and moving around would basically just amount to missing out on the convo
16:52:42 <mizmo> like it was hard to get an overview to see if other convo groups had formed. and i think thats a fatal design flaw
16:52:47 <mizmo> i like the idea it just doesnt invite exploration
16:52:55 <mizmo> hopin, you get a clear overview
16:53:06 <mizmo> and you know you can go back easily and things are recorded
16:53:22 <riecatnor> I think it would be nice to design a fedora themed "hallway track"
16:53:47 <bt0dotninja[m]1> +1
16:54:13 <riecatnor> that way folks can play around with it.. we can ask for feedback on it, and maybe use it for more at a future event
16:54:27 <mizmo> the thing about hallway tho is there are multiple convos, so in that sense gather could support a multi convo hallway track, it just doesnt have an overview... altho i did use it on the phone. i wonder if that was part of the issue
16:54:31 <mizmo> the phone support was not great
16:55:23 <riecatnor> I wrote up a blog post announcing that we are doing Nest again this year, it will publish tomorrow.. we could use something like this solely for the "social" track
16:55:29 <riecatnor> so all of the fun events versus sessions
16:55:35 <riecatnor> on technical topics
16:55:52 <mizmo> that would make a lot of sense imho
16:55:58 <tyll> riecatnor: doing a test run sounds good. It will also need something to attract people to actually join it.
16:56:18 <mizmo> it might be good to have "butterflies" to kind of move between groups intentionally too lol
16:56:22 <riecatnor> tyll, I will look further into the features and pricing for these different services
16:56:26 <riecatnor> tyll, a badge? :)
16:56:35 <riecatnor> mizmo, I like it!
16:56:36 <mizmo> is hallway track meant to extend the entire conference length or are there designated slots for it (or both?)
16:57:08 <riecatnor> hallway track is supposed to be an informal place for conversation, if folks aren't interested in any sessions, or maybe want to connect with a couple folks at once
16:57:25 <riecatnor> the hallway tracks we had at nest and f33 rp were well attended
16:57:42 <riecatnor> it happens simultaneously, but we could make a session dedicated to exploring that as well
16:58:32 <riecatnor> but, i also think the hallway tracks at nest had a few folks who were there a lot and spoke a lot.. maybe giving other people less of a chance.. i think this format would help resolve that
16:58:56 <tyll> riecatnor: I was also thinking in terms of content/sessions. Like in a real conference you would go to a room for a session and then meet people nearby to talk or while waiting. This is the experience that work adventure would also allow
16:59:08 <mizmo> thats what i noticed with the gather app, a few ppl dominating the convo
16:59:22 <mizmo> but thats because there was just one group
16:59:30 <mizmo> so wed need to encourage multiple groups to form
17:00:06 <riecatnor> mizmo, I think that is doable. I know must of us will be there for some part or another, and I can pass the message along to others like mattdm, who enjoy making that type of session fun
17:00:18 <tyll> mizmo: this would be the naturual movement if it is the main platform and people need to navigate the map to move from a session to another one
17:01:35 <riecatnor> Cool, this is def something we want to explore, and I think I need to be the one to get a better understanding of features, etc. I will take a look this week
17:01:56 <riecatnor> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/255
17:03:11 <riecatnor> tyll, glad you are here today. I wrote up a comment addressing your points
17:04:08 <riecatnor> DO you feel your concerns have been addressed?
17:04:10 <nb> riecatnor yeah, I like the idea of using hopin still
17:04:20 <nb> I'm pretty familiar with how to admin it and stuff by now
17:05:04 <riecatnor> nb, agreed.. I am hesitant to bring on a new platform or try to convert. Esp bc we have paid for HopIn already.
17:05:27 <riecatnor> we meaning, a Red Hat OSPO contract overall, tho we pay per registration.
17:05:40 <riecatnor> second we= fedora budget
17:08:01 <tyll> riecatnor: nb: I did not find hopin very pleasant to use as an attendee or booth maintainer.
17:08:14 <riecatnor> back to #255: I would like to move this along. tyll I want to know what you're thinking after my comment
17:08:25 <riecatnor> and make sure you are comfortable
17:09:08 <tyll> riecatnor: regarding DLN, I still don't really understand waht they are asking for. For example " we wouldn't want another network broadcasting DLN associated shows on their network"
17:09:39 <tyll> I still don't get what a network is and x3mboy's explanation does not compute with taht request
17:10:29 <tyll> if this is just a request for the Fedora podcasters to publish their episodes on DLN and use the Fedora logo there like other people requested to use the Fedora logo in a telegram group, this is fine
17:11:31 <riecatnor> I think there is more in the logs from this meeting: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-mindshare/2021-02-24/mindshare.2021-02-24-17.31.log.html
17:11:33 <tyll> also DLN wrote " we would request a reasonable level of commitment to the association" so I am not sure who they are asking to commit to - if the podcasts hosts want to commit to do something for DLN, this does not require mindshare's approval
17:13:07 <riecatnor> we asked a lot of these questions to MichaelTunnell|D and x3mboy at that meeting.. I do think some of it was addressed. For example, I said in my comment the commitment is from the folks doing the podcast
17:13:19 <riecatnor> if they are unable to keep doing the podcast, then the association would be dropped
17:14:39 <riecatnor> x3mboy, if you could explain further about the definition of network here that would be good, I don't think I am the right person
17:15:07 <x3mboy> Well, in tis case we call "network" to a association of different people with the same interests
17:15:28 <x3mboy> In this case, is a lot of podcasters that works together
17:15:50 <x3mboy> And together means sharing knowledge and/or guidance in specific topics
17:16:40 <x3mboy> This meaning that nobody should or would influence the other podcasts in any way
17:16:43 <tyll> x3mboy: using that definition, it would mean that you coud not share knowledge/guidance with outher people outside of DLN
17:17:13 <tyll> x3mboy: and not sure why you sharing knowledge with someone would require approval by mindshare
17:17:39 <x3mboy> Not necessarily, that just mean that the channel is more direct that asking or looking for that in the open
17:18:07 <x3mboy> Since this have been discussed a lot, I would ask what do you want or expect for this ticket?
17:18:43 <x3mboy> At some point we need to leverage some things to trust
17:19:37 <riecatnor> I also feel like this paragraph relieves the fear that we are in some situation we cant get out of: We have not attempted to do this before so we do not have a contract for this kind of thing at the moment but we would request a reasonable level of commitment to the association so that it can be mutually beneficial to both parties. If Fedora would prefer a contract created for such a commitment then we'd be willing to provide one.
17:19:41 <tyll> x3mboy: if this is just something between you and DLN, I don't understand why mindshare is involved at all
17:19:59 <x3mboy> It's not just me
17:20:07 <x3mboy> It's anyone that could take the podcast in the future
17:20:10 <riecatnor> tyll, I am guessing bc it is the Fedora podcast
17:20:34 <nb> The proposal is to say that the Fedora Podcast is part of DLN
17:20:40 <nb> which I think is a good idea
17:20:44 <nb> I think it will give us more publicity
17:21:02 <x3mboy> The whole point of having "The Fedora Podcast" and not "x3mboy's podcast" is that anyone can both participate or even take it from me as host
17:22:42 <tyll> x3mboy: so if you resign from the podcast and somebody else takes over, they will be required to cooperate with DLN?
17:22:58 <nb> tyll they have said there is no sort of term committment
17:23:04 <nb> so it could be ended at any time
17:24:29 <riecatnor> just want to point out we are running a bit short on time
17:24:47 <x3mboy> tyll, no, that's the idea of stepping out when any of the parts wanted to do it
17:26:13 <x3mboy> Ok, I think tyll is -1, that's it
17:26:16 <x3mboy> Take the voting
17:26:37 <riecatnor> let's let tyll say :)
17:26:38 <x3mboy> It's been open for enough time
17:26:42 <tyll> x3mboy: ok, so basicially you want to host your podcast on DLN and call it "The Fedora Podcast", this is the request?
17:26:57 <x3mboy> You can read the request in the ticket
17:26:57 <nb> tyll is not just him.  Is x3mboy and computerkid
17:27:03 <nb> podcast is not just one person anymore
17:27:17 <riecatnor> I find this comment from MichaelTunnell|D to be helpful as well: DLN approaches podcasting and content creation with an Open Source philosophy. We help Fedora Podcast and in turn we benefit as well.  We also treat our hosts this way as well. For example, Jill was on a podcast prior to her joining DL. We specifically gave her an exception in her contract to continue to do that show without worry that it would conflict. We have no desire
17:27:17 <riecatnor> to be a burden, only to help
17:27:35 <riecatnor> and we are not even worrying about a contract
17:28:28 <tyll> x3mboy: I am not against it, I just don't understand the situation enough to be for it
17:28:35 <x3mboy> The vote is clear: We do allow the Fedora Podcast to collaborate with DLN or no
17:28:50 <riecatnor> +1
17:29:03 <nb> +1
17:29:07 <x3mboy> And to be clear, I'm not going to vote since I'm directly involved
17:29:11 <tyll> 0
17:29:37 <siddharthvipul> Apologies everyone, unfortunately I am not clear on the whole thing (fault on my part as I have not been able to catch up with all comments), I am giving 0 for now
17:29:40 <riecatnor> tyll, thank you for the vote. I think I will comment in the ticket now, saying for folks to put them here
17:29:41 <tyll> For example, I feel not be able to explain anyone in my own words what this is about
17:30:57 <bt0> +1
17:31:15 <nb> riecatnor so we are voting in ticket or in here?
17:31:16 <riecatnor> I am going to close the meeting out in a min, need lunch :D
17:31:20 <riecatnor> on the ticket please
17:31:29 <x3mboy> Sure, need to eat too
17:31:41 <bt0> cool
17:31:43 <riecatnor> thank you everyone for the conversation
17:31:45 <x3mboy> Thanks everyone for coming
17:31:48 <riecatnor> and for being here today :D
17:31:50 <riecatnor> yes
17:31:53 <riecatnor> #endmeeting